Discussion: This is Not O'Keeffe Country
(upbeat music) – Good evening, everyone
My name is Katrina Latka, and I’m the Curator of Education and Interpretation at the Georgia O’Keeffe Museum Before we get started with this evening’s program, if you have not done so please feel free to introduce yourself in the chat box To find the chat, please go to the bottom of your screen as seen here and click on chat If you’re using an iPad, the chat function can be found at the top of your screen The chat box will then appear when you click on chat We ask that you also utilize the chat box for questions throughout the presentation And our panel of presenters will answer a selection of these at the end of tonight’s conversation You can close the chat box by clicking on the X in the upper right hand corner If your chat box is in the middle of your screen, you can move it around your screen by clicking on it and holding down your mouse button and dragging it And now, for our program, I’d like to begin by sending a thank you to our museum members and our donors who are here today Your support made this event possible If you’re not yet a member and you enjoy this program, please consider joining today As your gift will be matched dollar for dollar with our matching gift program Please visit gokm.org/membership to learn more without further ado, next is the director of the Georgia O’Keeffe Museum, Cody Hartley – Hi, I’m Cody Hartley, Director of the O’Keeffe Museum It’s my great pleasure to welcome you here for this virtual round table discussion about how we think about Northern New Mexico, and specifically the area around Abiquiu and Ghost Ranch, often, and we will argue tonight mistakenly called O’Keeffe Country I would like to begin by recognizing that the region we are discussing tonight is Tewa Country As I sit here in Santa Fe, known originally as Ogha Pooge or White Shell Water Place, I acknowledged that our museum and historic sites sit upon the lands of the Pueblo People We recognize and honor their elders past and present, and celebrate the vitality of indigenous peoples today and into future generations I offer this with humility and gratitude, acknowledging the need to confront the ongoing legacies of settler colonialism O’Keeffe country has been used as a romantic shorthand to describe Northern New Mexico, largely to attract tourists to this unique region But Georgia O’Keeffe did not own this area She did not discover it It is not a phrase we like or use any longer at the Georgia O’Keeffe Museum As far as we’re concerned, this is not O’Keeffe country Our panelists, all thoughtful, passionate, powerful advocates that I admire, will offer important perspectives on the many people and legacies that have and continue to inhabit this region It’s an honor to bring them together
and I look forward to learning from them tonight, as they share their knowledge, experience and perspectives Tonight, we welcome as our moderator, Dr. Alicia Inez Guzman, a Queer Chicana Writer, Curator and Editor based in Santa Fe She is a 2017 recipient of a Creative Capital Arts Writer Award, and a past O’Keeffe Museum research fellow Dr, Christina M. Castro of Taos and Jemez Pueblo, and a Chicana, is a mother writer, scholar, community organizer, and co-founder of Three Sisters Collective, an indigenous woman led grassroots organization devoted to art, activism, education, and community building Dr. Corrine Sanchez of San Ildefonso Pueblo, is the Executive Director of Tewa Women United She has been part of the co creation process of building indigenous knowledge through the contribution of Tewa Women United’s work over the past 30 years And Jason Garcia is a storyteller artist from the Santa Clara Pueblo, whose work documents the ever-changing cultural landscape of his home He is best known for his clay tiles that blend Pueblo history and culture with the outside influences of comic books, superheroes, video games, religious icons, and all things about culture It is truly an honor to have them here with us this evening And I thank them for their generosity I also wanna thank the National Endowment for the Humanities and the New Mexico Humanities Council for their support of tonight’s program And thanks also to you, our audience, we have an amazing turnout for this evening, and we’re thrilled you’ve chosen to spend time with us If you find these programs valuable, I encourage you to support the museum by becoming a member or making a gift to the annual fund Now, it’s my pleasure to turn the evening over to Dr. Guzman – Hi, everybody I’m Alicia Inez Guzman I’m here streaming to you from Ogha Pooge, Santa Fe, New Mexico And I really just wanted to start by placing Georgia O’Keeffe Cody did a little bit of that but I wanna give some context around her arrival So, O’Keeffe arrived in New Mexico during the interwar period So, between World War I and World War II, and arrived during a time in which New Mexico was experiencing immense amounts of change So, not only were we seeing tourism boosters really sell our State to the rest of the nation, through the railroad, through the sale of land, through an entire discourse We’re seeing things like the creation of Indian Market and the creation of Spanish Market And so, there’s this whole tourism kind of machine, basically putting New Mexico into the limelight And we start to see that really in the late 1800, early 1900, and when O’Keeffe arrives, it’s starting to peak And when she arrives, of course, like many others who are coming from elsewhere, she falls in love with the landscape and the light, and she starts painting and she moves to New Mexico for summers at first, and then, eventually permanently right around 1940 And so, one quote that I think is especially important (booming thunderstorm noise) There’s some thunder back here, seems auspicious One quote that is really important I think for giving some context is, she’s painting out in the Navajo Nation and which was one of her favorite places to paint And she camps out there and she says, “it’s such a beautiful untouched, lonely feeling place, “part of what I call the far away.” And in fact, O’Keeffe did a really great job of depicting this feeling of isolation and faraway ness And in fact, one of her paintings is called The Faraway Nearby And I think this is what helps contribute to this idea that New Mexico is on the periphery And that we start to see it through this lens in which it is isolated, and it is beyond the kind of cosmopolitan frame that she was coming from And so, she re frames New Mexico yet again through this lens of isolation And this is incredibly, we have inherited this legacy of O’Keeffe
And so, I think it’s really important to push back and to give context because New Mexico is amidst change When she arrives, the National Laboratory is being built There’s a new technology getting introduced into the landscape The infrastructure is changing Roads are getting built to allow materials, to move the Los Alamos National Laboratory We see the damming of the Chama River into the Abiquiu Dam So, the landscape is actually changing, not only that we have our native relatives, who’ve been here for millennia, we have our Hispanic and Chicano populations who have been here for the last 400 years And it’s an incredibly dynamic vital changing space This is the New Mexico that O’Keeffe enters as a guest And so, with that, I want to get all the panelists together Maybe I can’t see everybody, but, and really start off the conversation, talking about that legacy and how we might be able to think past it, right? So, my first question, and also thank you to the other panelists I’m really honored to be here with a powerhouse group of relatives So, my first question actually is for Corrine And I really wanna talk about the unintended consequences So, you know, the aesthetic cultural and even economic consequences of O’Keeffe’s impact here in New Mexico and how that really creates this ripple effect – Thank you, Alicia I’m so honored to be here tonight with my esteemed panelists, as well as all of you from across the country I’ve been looking and seeing where people are coming from and being able to be a part of this conversation And as someone who grew up in this area, who is familiar with some of the art world, coming from an artistic family, and also someone who does transformative work here in Northern New Mexico I think we cannot take any people that are coming here Those that are invited, or those that are not invited You know, really understanding the colonial context of our State and our area, understanding the complexity of identity and what does that mean to each and every one of us Understanding those unintended consequences of, you know, when we were talking about this panel earlier and just trying to think about what we’re gonna share, it was the same, you know, you mentioned Los Alamos National Laboratory and Oppenheimer, fell in love with the scenery here in New Mexico And I think that’s the first thing that really draws people into our State, right? The land of enchantment, the land of entrapment, has those connotations But it is the beauty And so, within that, falling in love with nature, falling in love with the isolation, the rural ness of our communities I think there’s also this unintended consequence that people tend to not realize the occupancy that was here, right? That it’s been here for hundreds and thousands of years that you had mentioned And also the unintended consequences of this shift in populations and waves of colonization happening in our State to then bring in peoples and then have this clash There has to be one, this kind of clash of people meeting and things happening, and then kind of like a settling down, like that settler colonialism pieces But then really getting to know and understand But for me, there was this shift, the shift in the economy because of art And we think about art and, you know, we talked about the utilitarianism of our craft Our crafts were meant for everyday usage And then, there came this place of collection and production for beauty and production for another way of economic sustainability in our areas And so, we shift and you talked about that as you shared earlier And so, I think there’s a lot of unintended consequences that we often don’t think about in those types of transformations, in those types of contexts that happen And then, how do then those that follow sit with that legacy and how do we learn from that? And I think that’s been part of my journey in learning about the area, because there’s also been an eraser of history in our communities
And really for me, like this work that we’ve been doing with Tewa Women United, was really learning about the village of Abiquiu and the communities there, and the displacement that happened to them as well in our area So, again, that sense of identity and how that gets taken and how it gets reformed I think those are all some of those unintended consequences – Absolutely Christina or Jason, do you have any cometary to add about unintended consequences? – I am sorry, I was absent There was a huge thunder and it knocked out my power for a minute I’m not sure what happened But with regard to unintended consequences, I would argue that the consequence, you know, they might not be as unintended, as we may think they are The more I learned about the legacy of O’Keeffe and the era of her time, and the folks that were coming out from the East coast to, you know, “find themselves in a vast undiscovered landscape.” The more I learned, you know, these elites were very calculated in their movements And so, I’m trying to look at the legacy My dad had something interesting to say the other day about in Santa Fe, like how women in Santa Fe all have a Georgia O’Keeffe ideology That’s what brings them to New Mexico, right? They’re trying to discover something about themselves in a place that they, I guess, feel is a safe to come to So, the more I learn her place in history, the feminist movement happening at that time that wasn’t so great to women of color, the eugenics movement that was coming into the United States at that time, some of the British thinkers that were already here in New Mexico, people like Mabel Dodge up in Taos These were elites who came out here as a part of an artistic settler colonial project So, I’m interested in that because I don’t think that the consequences are necessarily unintentional – I think that’s a good point, Christina, because if you’re really entitled and you’re really privileged, you may not think they’re intended But intention doesn’t necessarily have anything to do with outcome – Right – Right Because you may intend simply to like, self-actualize Like, I’m gonna go like, be my best self out in New Mexico where, you know, we’re entering into the cash economy, where we’re seeing some environmental racism and that the, you know, the first movements in that direction And so, you’re right, the consequences unintended or not an unintended usually come from a place of entitlement or privilege because you’re not really thinking about anything beyond your own kind of perspective – I have more to say, but all I’ll pass it to mic – No, and I have more to ask (laughs) I don’t know, Jason, if you have anything to say about unintended consequences or intended consequences in terms of– – All right So, I believe I had stepped away just slightly before as Cody was doing the introduction And I believe that Cody had done, I guess a land recognition of what is currently the City of Santa Fe, which is Ogha Pooge, which is the traditional Tewa name for Santa Fe And also, I saw in the comment or in a chat box, someone had asked, can you define Tewa? So, I think more like the title of the talk, I was thinking about it earlier of saying that, you know, it’s not, you know, this is Tewa Country not O’Keeffe Country So, Tewa is a group of six Tewa speaking Pueblos located in Northern New Mexico There’s also located at First Mesa in Arizona, that migrated where (indistinct) in intended migration, I guess you would say, of moving post Pueblo revolts early 1700 And so, the six Tewa Pueblos are; Ohkay Owingeh, Santa Clara, San Ildefonso, Nambe, Tesuque, Pojoaque And these are all located primarily North of Santa Fe And then, there were also several Tewa villages that were located in the Southern (indistinct) as well too And I guess in the sense of what Tewa Country or “O’Keeffe country,” is commonly known as the region of Northern New Mexico, that includes Santa Fe,
it goes all the way up to Abiquiu and North Ghost Ranch and up to Taos And so, you know, it’s just a small segment of what we defined, as Tewa people define as the Tewa World And today, my daughter and I were driving Albuquerque to pick up some things at her school And as we were driving, I was asking her about the mountains, and what the mountains, our boundaries of the Tewa World, which is a San Antonio peak, (speaking in Tewa), the Sandias And then (speaking in Tewa), which is the Sangre de Cristos So, that’s essentially the Tewa World, that’s Tewa Country And so, you know, O’Keeffe country is just a small segment about it So, it’s interesting also of what Corrine had said about the erasure So, I see a lot of erasure of place names and the original inhabitants, and just doing a Google search of okeeffecountry.com and there’s no mention about native communities She’s just said that she came to Northern New Mexico and she fell in love with the place and was influenced by the original native inhabitants No mention of Tewas, no mention of place names, things like that So, again, as we were talking, Abiquiu (speaking in Tewa) is the Tewa name of a Valley of choke cherry And then, also the erasure of Pedernal peak And then her, intended ownership of Pedernal which is known in Tewa as (speaking in Tewa) which is obsidian mountain And as I was doing research, I found it interesting that she said, in referenced to Pedernal, in reference to (speaking in Tewa) She said, it’s my private mountain God told me if I painted it often enough, I could have it So, just the fact that she’s saying, if I paint this picture a thousand times, 2000 times, it’s mine, I have ownership So, it’s just interesting of how that intended erasure and it was (laughs) I mean, you fall in love with a place, but once you call it yours, it’s a whole different ball game and things like that, so – Absolutely Thanks, Jason, for jumping that knowledge, I really appreciate it And for giving us those place names I think it’s really important There’s this phrase that says that amnesia is the algorithm of colonization And so, I think that that’s absolutely appropriate in this context and in the context of New Mexico, because there is a lot of amnesia and willful forgetting, right? Eraser And so, for me, I think the process of remembering is the algorithm of decolonization or of coming back and centering ourselves in place And I think that’s really important to do and to think about the fact that when you’re a guest here, that acting as a guest means not simply claiming space for yourself and for your practice, right? And I think that we can say that even for people who come to New Mexico right now, and there is intentionality in what you do and how you take up space, right? And so, I think that’s really important She did say that, if I painted enough times, it will be mine, right? And that’s a form of ownership, even if it’s metaphorical, right? But we are talking in metaphorical terms, the O’Keeffe country is a metaphorical term yet it’s had such great impact in the State And it was a creation of the New Mexico tourism department And somebody pointed that out in the chat, but it really was part of an advertising strategy to get people to New Mexico and to see New Mexico through the lens of O’Keeffe And when we only see through the lens of O’Keeffe, we tend to forget that there is so much more, right? And that this landscape is not hers And she was always a guest We should always treat her and she should retroactively treat her as a guest So, I wanted to come back to this question of feminism, Christina, that you brought up Especially here in New Mexico, our version of feminism is far different In fact, and I have a kind of troubled relationship with feminism, but when we think of the feminism that O’Keeffe came out of, that she really originated out of,
it’s very different contexts and she was breaking glass ceilings in the art world, but does that really square with how we see women in our place here in New Mexico – Well, I would note, I have a speaking to a friend today who’s from, she’s from the Haudenosaunee Nation And she said that the suffragettes and the early feminist movement learned about feminism or the concept of feminism through the women’s circles and the women’s councils of the Haudenosaunee And they were startled to see women in power and they took those ideas, and that was kind of like part of the inception of the early feminist movement As far as myself, I don’t claim feminism because I don’t believe it’s for me, for some of the very reasons that we’ve briefly touched on But here in our Pueblo cultures, pre colonially, I think there was a fair amount of respect and balance between the genders And so, for me as a Pueblo woman, I don’t have to find feminism It’s not something I have to fight for It’s maybe something I have to reclaim, but it’s not a new ideology And most indigenous cultures are metro lineal leaning if you really look back to our roots, are great things that we venerate and our religion is very feminine as well So, it’s not even for me to speak on because it’s not mine and I don’t claim it And again, this feminism is complicated (laughs) And white women have benefited a lot from feminism on the backs of women and people of color – Thank you Corrine coming to us from Tewa Women United – Again, the complexity, right? There’s the complexity to all these concepts that come from just a Western interpretation of what that means And so, again, when we’re growing up and we have these multiplicity abuse, multiplicity of explanations, experiences There is not one way to encapsulate it You know, I was also challenged with feminism I do claim it in different respects I had to learn about it really through, in an academic sense, really through African American writers, right? The whole indigenous scholars and that academic world is catching up to the reality of our world But as far as really, again that eraser and what was captured in historical documents, took away that women’s voice, our women’s voice And as those waves of colonization came into New Mexico from the Mexican government, Spanish government to the U.S. governmental system, again, all of those legalese that they had, how they developed in their governments, also laid out that kind of idea And so, when you have these waves of genocide, of misogyny, that’s coming in, and all of that places where women have been displaced, how do you really then reclaim and recollect who you are? And so, I think there’s also, we’re also stumbling over this idea of communalism, right? Because that’s what our communities were We were communal, and there was no ownership So, when you talk about Georgia O’Keeffe and you talk about others, and you talk about owning really wife in property in the Euro American context was coming from that property ownership of women, their bodies And we’re still dealing with that context today in the United States And we’re also still struggling with that within our Pueblo communities, because even though we do have this, matriarchal sense, we do have this rootedness to women, and the sacredness of women You know, our organization came to be because there’s also the hypocrisy around those different concepts We have murdered and missing Indigenous women We have domestic violence and sexual assault levels that are off the charts coming from our men and coming from those that are non native So, there is a whole lot of different issues that come in And so, when you read as a young person, the strong personality of Georgia O’Keeffe, being an independent woman and going out and doing certain things, that does hit a different aspect for me, or capture the different essence for me And so, like, we’re trying to make sense of seeing strong women of any culture And what does that mean? How are they breaking different patterns within their social cultural system? How are we as indigenous women doing the same thing? Coming from powerful women in my community that started this organization, and also the facing a lot of silencing from the patriarchy that has seeped into our communities
And so, I think, again, how are we looking and how do we interrogate this for ourselves to kind of make sense of how we’re reclaiming things and what does that mean? And coming into the women’s movement, that we have the first wave, second wave, third wave, fourth wave of women’s movement because of, again, that whole, I’m trying to understand Like, you’re leaving out these people, you’re like this group you’re leaving out And so, how do we really get to really honoring that multiplicity of perspectives, multiplicity of voices of experiences, because I can tell you, I’m not just shaped by my native community I’m shaped by every culture and community that I’ve engaged with and had really dialogue and sharing and talking And so, for me singing strong activism, we’re seeing a lot of it right now in this time and age with Three Sisters Collective I don’t know more, but prior to that, women’s, you know, our women’s voices are indigenous women’s activism on that level was not necessarily captured We live in this society of social media, which is totally capturing it But when we were starting our organization, there weren’t that many organizations that were native women led or run And so, our models and our teachers were from those other cultures, our African American sisters, our Latina sisters, our sisters out East who really have maintained that matriarchal connection, and that honoring, and that responsibility, and then, when we get in circles with our sisters from other communities, they’re like, where are the native Tewa women’s voices and how do you move and do? And our movement and our response is very different, right? Because we don’t necessarily have that type of rootedness solidly within our communities We like to say we do And I know, and I’ve seen the struggle and I know that our communities are moving towards that But again, we’re all trying to decolonize from different aspects of patriarchy, white supremacy, you know, capitalism, you name it We all have this struggle to do And so, I feel, again, those are the complexities that come within these different discussions – Giving me life Yeah, I think this is like, the best way to complicate the narrative, especially in 20th century, in New Mexico, that white women are moving East and that they’re bringing this idea of what it means to be an independent woman here, to a place that’s been occupied and lived in, and beloved, right? And like, part of the identity of women here and women identifying people here for so long And yet again, we’re stuck with that very flat legacy of what it means to be independent in New Mexico, because it continues to persist But if we look at our, and that’s like a kind of outside perspective, and yet it does define who we are here And when we look at our own communities, we can point to all of the women in our own lives where we say, oh, yeah, she was strong, she was independent, she did not come from a moneyed family on the East coast And we have all of these other different models within our own communities, but it’s easy to like, collapse all of that when you’re looking at Santa Fe from a different perspective When you move that perspective around, you can really see how very rich our kind of history of women occupying this space actually is And I think it’s important to like, give that narrative, the complicated ness that it needs, that multiplicity as you say, Corrine I think that’s like, the best way to put it We can’t capture it all the time, right? Cause our identities are constantly changing I got really excited So, I think, yeah, I think that’s just like a really way to frame it So – Can I add something? – Yeah, no, add away – So, I just wanna hype you for a second because prior to this webinar I had asked Dr. Guzman, hey, can you send me some good resources about Ms. O’Keeffe here? And then, she’s like, oh, yeah, I wrote a book Okay, so, here’s the book, you all go buy it Support her, it’s called Georgia O’Keeffe at Home by Dr. Alicia Inez Guzman (laughs) And in this, I’m just fascinated by it But, I just wanted to read some just a little bit, because when she first came out at Georgia O’Keeffe, she first went to Taos, which I thought was interesting And she linked up with the writer, the British writer, D.H Lawrence and Mabel Dodge Luhan, who has a very interesting history up in Taos,
which you should read about if you’re not familiar, complex just as well And then, this was also the era too when Dorothy Dunn came out to the Santa Fe Indian school So, all these writers, these women were coming from the East coast to do art And I don’t know if you all are familiar with Dorothy Dunn and her impact on the Santa Fe Indian school, but she came and taught native folks a lot of Tewa folks, but she was teaching art classes, but I think she was also probably helping to start the commodification of native arts in Santa Fe, which led to Swire, which leads to any market, which leads to what you see today But one thing, you know what? D.H. Lawrence referred to New Mexico as the moon of America, which I thought was so interesting And one of the other guys she was hanging with at the time, Hartley I’m not sure what his first name is Do you have it off the top of your head? – Marsden – Yeah, was he a writer or an artist? – He was a painter – Yeah, he was a painter and he referred to us indigenous people as harmless children of the world And, you know, just really thinking about the company she kept and what they were doing at the time and the ideology back then, I’m just really fascinated on how it continues to permeate the current culture that we have here in Santa Fe and the people who continually flock here for this experience, this indigenous experience, but never fully really understanding that indigenous experience Because much like Ms. O’Keeffe, we don’t exist in her world or on her canvas, where there are no indigenous people at all and on the moon – Well, there are no people at all If you look (indistinct) you might think you’re on the moon And I think that’s the kind of like, it’s humorous, but it’s also real because there so many metaphor, where it’s like, oh, yeah, the end of the world, the moon, you know, the far away And it’s like, it makes it seem so peripheral when in fact we’re center of the world, as far as I’m concerned – And then, also before she came here, she was on the East coast and she was the beginning the whole modernist art movement, but what proceeded that was Precisionism So, then I was looking at, okay, what does Precisionism? And so, I look it up and guess what Wikipedia says, it was the first indigenous modern art movement in the United States and the predecessor of modernism And it was a portal swirl whirlwind celebration of the new American landscape So, wow I mean, it’s kind of great for me – Look at Robert Johnson’s work, UNM – Right, who is the namesake of the Johnson Museum? – Exactly, (indistinct) stole or appropriate, since all artists don’t steal, they appropriate He appropriated a lot of Pueblo iconography and imagery along with other artists, Lichtenstein was known for that as well, along with Rocco, so, along with Picasso African art, so – Yeah, totally I know appropriation, the next conversation – [Christina] Moving along – Jason, as an artist who’s family is really well known as potters and you kind of creating your own hybrid aesthetic practice I’m wondering how this idea of landscape really squares with you as a person who uses the land – I think it’s interesting, I guess I would probably speak as a Pueblo person, as a Tewa person, as a Tewa man, that participates culturally in his traditions and ceremonies and understands our Tewa language And (indistinct) that my art is rooted in my Pueblo cultural traditions and things like that Seeing the landscape and understanding the landscape and the names, the place names, and having a background with cultural resources and land reacquisition with the Santa Clara tribe, I had worked for the tribal administration for about five years, reacquisitioning our ancestral tribal lands, and then, also protection of cultural resources So, a lot of those areas of, again, “O’Keeffe Country.” You know, I visited a lot of our ancestral Tewa villages, (speaking in Tewa) is one of them,
(speaking in Tewa) and then another one is (speaking in Tewa) and different villages So, I think from that context of seeing it as through the Pueblo lens, I see the importance of what it means to us, of how we hold that land sacred, it’s our ancestors, you know, it sustains us, it empowers us, certain things are on the land Mineral pigments come from certain places that are used in our art forms, clay creating pottery There’s certain areas where certain paints come for our dances that we use And there are shrines that are still visited and maintained And so, I see that as the, and as an artist, as a Pueblo artists, Tewa artists, Santa Clara Coppell artist, I see that there’s that connection to the land There’s a connection to those places and it’s honoring it, and it’s not saying, oh, if I use that pigment from that place, I own it So, you know, I’m a steward of it essentially, and teaching future generations of Tewa people, Tewa young men and women the meaning behind it, or transferring that knowledge and things like that So, that’s kind of how I see it in terms of even my art of documenting the ever-changing cultural landscape of (indistinct), of Santa Clara Pueblo is recording that past history and sometimes you’re kind of truthful about it and you are honest and sometimes you call bullshit when you see it And, you know, then also you accepted as well too I mean, that’s being an artist, you’re giving criticism and accepting criticism as well too – Absolutely Let’s talk about this term I’ve thought about it for many, many years, and it’s usually framed in a really benign context, but I would like to put it out to the panelists here about the artist colony, which we’ve kind of I know Christina’s like, oh, no, you didn’t (laughs) I saw the face (laughs) Which like I said, is treated pretty benignly And New Mexico is one of the very, you know, kind of few places where we see artist colony mentioned quite a lot, because there were so many and I’ll give it to you, Christina, (indistinct) – Well, back to D.H. Lawrence and Lady Dorothy Brett, she was a British writer, D.H. Lawrence, no, she was a painter, D.H Lawrence was the writer and they were up in Taos and they were trying to build a utopian mythical or whatever community called Ron and Nam or something And that was their goal up there, right? So, then, like, look at the history of that, of this utopian artist colony ideology followed by the hippie movement, where you had all the hippies coming into Northern New Mexico, posted up on, you know, Tewa lands And then, it’s part of the same mythos to me So, this utopia at the expense of who and what, and if you juxtapose that, what was happening with federal policy at the time, and the situation on our Pueblos and reservations where we’re literally pushed, being pushed out of our life ways to go into war to sustain our families, because that was the only means of income And of course, we’re the penultimate warriors as indigenous people And then, you have boarding schools and then, you have all these forced sterilization, of which followed eugenics I mean, you have all this stuff happening, you have Los Alamos And so, at the utopia, at the expense of what? You know, at the expense of what? But again, if those people, you know, our people are deemed not as intellectual And if we didn’t have the capacity to develop and industrialize the way New York was being industrialized, then clearly, we didn’t matter in the equation – And then, also other metal core reasons to escape to the dry heat of New Mexico,
to recover from tuberculosis, and, you know, that’s kind of a draw So, you kind of think it’s interesting the time period that we’re living in now with COVID-19, I’m saying, you know, and is New Mexico, the place to be, in that we’re surrounded by two States that have high COVID numbers and high COVID deaths and things like that So, maybe we are this Oasis – We’re all having a hard time breathing right now, too, literally With the smoke in the air where can I go? – Where it’s not burning? – Well, I think this is interesting because they assumes that we’ve been placed people in this spot for a while And I think all of that context comes into play when you have colonization, the colonizers coming in and saying, you’re only allowed this part for you to be when we know, like Jason’s talking about the mountain ranges, right? The ecosystems feed our rivers is where we put our prayers, which is way beyond the borders of our Pueblos or our reservations at this moment New Mexico is part of Mexico, right? And so, like, again, it’s like, when then it’s like, who’s identifying who? And who’s naming who? And in New Mexico, I mean, this history really frustrates me because I’m like people here claim ancestry to Spain when really we were all part of Mexico And then, the Pueblo identity and all of these different contexts, like, we’ve traveled down to Mexico, we got bird feathers, shells, you know, all of these things we could have traveled a lot farther than people really assume us to have traveled Again, because of that scientific way of where people make this assumption, that native people, people that occupied this land before the colonizers, they didn’t have their science, they didn’t have the mathematics, they didn’t have all of these things, because only Western world defines that And we know from Chaco and we know from Mesa Verde and others that we’ve had the science, we’ve had the indigenous knowledge We built boats, we traveled, we traded, we created art, and we created, we observed and we experimented Or else we wouldn’t be able to have and know which herbs cured what, which paints to use on what, which survived through time And so, I guess that assumption, right? That again, it’s like borders didn’t cross You know, we didn’t cross borders, borders crossed us really And we really need to really understand that particular piece, because we have a whole, you have the whole delay population, which when you go back in the stories of our ancestors, they were really nomadic And then, they land in this place And then, they start displacing And so, there’s these, I don’t wanna also say that we were a utopian either But we also, I don’t necessarily say that we owned or claimed ownership to places I know that there were different agreements and the ways that migration happened and things like that with animals and what we ate during certain times, we did end up as an agricultural base because we did understand drought and all of these things and storage of seeds So, again, the complexity of like, we’re just gonna say, oh, and to this day we fight over water, we’re fighting over land because we’ve all forgotten and how to be communal and how to share And so, then it becomes, I own this, I copyrighted this, this is mine You can’t do these different pieces and we didn’t have that necessarily down until you bring in law, right? Until you bring in codification And again, someone else’s interpretation of what those codes are gonna be So, doctrine of discovery, all of these things in our law books that exist today, that we’re trying to still fight because again, law bills on this precedent of what was laid before And so, those who maintain ownership of that claim that And so, even in our books here in New Mexico and other places, they have demeaning ways to describe us as indigenous peoples, as domiciles, as children, as you know, that they can’t care for their own land, they can’t think for themselves And yet all of the great advances in medicine and others have come from our indigenous peoples in the Amazon, here in New Mexico and other places So, medicine and all of those things, they didn’t come out of, you know, or they landed here And they landed here and they were guided by peoples that took in and helped shelter because these were people and like, them beings like them And then, there was this fevery and lying and manipulation
to get people to give away land, even though they didn’t even have the concept that we own this land And so, I think, again, we’re playing into this Western process and all of these different legal systems that come into play, and how does that apply to art and how does that apply to our lives? When we’re also in this place of multiplicity of races and ethnicities, right? We have this full-blood thing of native blood We have multiracial multicultural people in our communities And that mix step history of, I’m just trying to be really simplistic, right? Skews within our young people’s places and pits us against each other And then, it also pits us against the broader world and us, you know, people against people And so, it’s like, how did we move from that communal place, that sharing place? This place of recognizing everything as, again, what Jason mentioning in our Tewa philosophy, like, everything was sacred, everything was connected, everything in a way to give life into the fuller of not just for yourself, but for your whole life communities And so, we’re here in this country where we’re have people in cages We are taking away people’s lands, we’re killing people for the color of their skin skin And I don’t wanna say that that is directly connected to this conversation on art and colonizing and colonial and the colony Because it gets us to be that I am better than you, you, you and you, I am above all of these And so, there’s multiple philosophies, there’s multiple thinkers, there’s multiple ways of living in this world And yet we come down to one And for me, landing on the commodification of art, who sets the price? Who’s setting the price? Like, my great grandmother redefined and redeveloped the black queer pottery from, again, that experimentation and that observation and recreating And now, her potteries are worth millions or thousands And we, as a family, don’t even really own any of her, have a piece of her pottery, right? Like, cause that’s all gone out and people, and I think that’s that whole economic kind of pieces and what does that mean? And even for myself, trying to get some of the art from my great grandfather and my grandfather, their paintings Which again, is like people taught them how to do certain types of painting, right? And so, again, there’s this learning and sharing, but there’s also, again, it’s also in this skewed kind of perspective And so, you know, for we’re pricing ourselves out of art or we’re trying to bring this economic in this one, certain perspective What does that mean for sustainability really for all of us? And we’re seeing that and we’re living that in COVID right now – Absolutely Snaps (indistinct) Snaps Yeah, and I think that’s the framework of the nation state That’s actually what’s really rigid and inflexible and doesn’t allow for this multiple way of thinking, right? When the nation state tells you that this is where you belong, right This is your picture frame When we know our relatives have been crossing the Americas and in migrations, in trade, in all sorts of different ways We know that the idea of being static is actually a Western projection and really what static is the nation state and the Western concept of the nation state And so, let’s just like, I mean, it’s like, why do we even have that old model? You know, it works politically, but that model is premise on exclusion and its premise on, manifest destiny, which we still see today, right? The clearing of the land parallels the clearing of the picture frame We know that emptiness is not only a metaphor, it’s an actuality And it’s what people kind of project as well as manifest So, I know we have some questions from the audience as well And so, I’m gonna kind of mix them up into this conversation And one of the questions is How do you evaluate and bring into the cultural social environment, the energy brought by the Genizaro people currently in the Abiquiu area?
So, our Genizaro relatives – This is the part, this is, we’ve been reconnecting with the Genizaros through our connections within the village of Abiquiu And also recognizing and understanding again, like the ways our Pueblo embraces people and the way our Pueblos also push out people And we know that because of the warring and because of the colonizations, the rapes, assaults and also really the places where people did really, truly fall in love, right? When people come in contact, it’s not always in that warring place, even though that was a big piece of it There’s also really realities of where people did mutually fall in love And so, the children of that experience on whatever level and the communities and because of racism and all of these other things that existed and how people have been viewed, there’s a whole place of healing that needs to happen and occur There are ways that we need to learn from each other and understand the complexity of that history We see blackism in our communities I wanna name that because I have relatives who are African American and indigenous and that’s a real place for us to grow and heal and learn as indigenous communities When we go into this pure bred model, like, oh, four fourths, or one fourths, or three fourths, or whatever That’s a political concept that was placed in our heads that we’ve also embraced And so, how do we address and heal that? And we feel like that’s part of, for us that deep healing and deep conversations that need to happen, and we need to recognize And we’re in this moment now in 2020 So, what does it mean for us to really work with other communities of color, different types of races and ethnicities, so that we’re in this moment in 2020, and we’ve been in this for a while, how do we really heal those deep wounds and see each other as human beings with different experiences and different experiences And I think that’s the deep work of all of us here in America right now, right? How are we making sense of this America in this moment, and really understanding and learning the history and knowing that people didn’t just land here And it was all good, people didn’t just come in different places and for us in New Mexico what I grew up with is this brown on brown violence And so, how are we making sense of that? Because I know that there was a deep communal respect and honoring that had come after a lot of disruption And warring, and killing and murdering And so, how do we recognize and hold that experience and really move from that place so that we’re not continuing to cause that type of violence upon each other, and that we’re really learning about those experiences – Absolutely And I just wanna rewind, I dawned on me that maybe not everybody watching knew what Genizaro was or that specific term and the history of it, it’s actually a Turkish word, a Janissary, that’s the root And it’s a Christianized slave, basically And in the context here, we have detribalized native people being brought to various places in New Mexico, one of them being Abiquiu to resettle certain areas, especially along the Northern frontiers So, Abiquiu is one of those communities that was created by and founded by detribalized Christianized native slaves, who were then sent out to create these buttress They were called buttress communities And so, these native slaves are slaves of Spanish colonists And what’s important to know is that they’re coming from all over the place And so, we have from the plains, we have native slaves coming in We have native slaves coming in from Mexico We have Ute, Apache and you see that in the Santa Fe context as well And so, the idea that it’s just Spanish and everybody else is actually really complicated because they get all of these mixtures in the process And one of those really complicated things is native slavery So, that’s just to give the term a little context In case anybody was wondering
But you’re right, brown on brown violence is real, Corrine – I think in the context of American history When we’re working with our African American brothers and sisters, they talk about slavery and I’m like, well, in New Mexico we had slavery And so, you also need to learn that history as well Like, you weren’t the first slaves brought to America We had this, there was this, our peoples were enslaved And so, again, that also complicates the real understanding And again, how many of us really do get this whole perspective of these different experiences of the history of how this country came to be – Christina– – New Mexico colonial, I was just gonna add that New Mexico colonial slavery extended into post New Mexico statehood So, it’s not anything recently forgotten or likely the African American experience of slavery I guess you would say still follows after emancipation proclamation and all those things too, so – Yeah, and that’s a good point After the Thirteenth Amendment, slavery persisted here, because it wasn’t called slavery It was called by every other name, but it was essentially slavery And so, that’s how the church and the Spanish crown really got away with doing it for so long because they didn’t call it slavery So, they could kind of skirt through this tricky use of words – Yeah, they don’t call it slavery now, you’re right – I mean, there’s all sorts of slavery, right? – [Christina] Exactly, they just (indistinct)– – (indistinct) euphemisms to deal with it, cause who wants to face the fact that like, either maybe your, you know, like, maybe somebody in my family owned slaves and maybe somebody in my family was a slave, right? And that’s like a hard thing to hold in your body and to kind of recognize within yourself that those are all together in this context in New Mexico So– – Was there a specific name for slavery as one of the questions that just popped up in New Mexico? (indistinct) Encomienda – Yeah, it was the encomienda system – Encomienda. Right. Servitude Yeah, encomienda system. And you’d also hear the term (speaking in Spanish) or malcriados, which is like– – Bad bloods – Yeah So, and you’d hear all of these terms And then, there were a lot of terms for like mixed race people as well, because the Spanish were really like obsessed with making sense of like, mixtures So, there were all sorts of weird names, like colores quebrados, like broken colors, or (speaking in Spanish) like– – [Christina] White supremacy, basically – This is white supremacy, right? I mean, here’s the word we should be using (laughs) Speaking of not using words, we should be using white supremacy – The hierarchy of white supremacy and Hispanic white supremacy – Okay, so, here’s another question I’m gonna bring to you now (indistinct) What’s that? – Oh, I was just gonna say, and then also that helped establish New Mexico as a State as well Labeling certain people, you know, some of the non labeling Hispanics, Mexicans – The Spanish– – That’s (indistinct) Exactly – Cause like, no, no, we’re white We can be part of America too – I’m descended from Isabella and Ferdinand royalty (laughs) – Where are we looking for a drink after is what I wanna know? Jesus, okay (both laughing loudly) – So, we have a question about Well, I’m gonna put two questions forward, but I’ll do this one first since he came in first So, can you unpack the claim to the mountain? And I think it’s maybe referring to the paternal As O’Keeffe collected bones, was she also a steward? Was her claim to the mountain simply a metaphor and poetic response? Is it fair to lump O’Keeffe in with those who did abuse the land and claimed it by manifest destiny? – Yes
I’m really interested in her obsession with bones and I wanted to, I was hoping that would come up Because let’s really theorize on why she was sending crates of bones back to New York Like that is a little bizarre to me And what does that mean in the larger context of this, you know, this story? What is her obsession with bones of the Southwest? (laughs) – The next talk – I think one of those, you know, you had mentioned the artists colony and I don’t know if there’s a name for them, but there’s the archeologists colony The archeologists fascination with the New Mexico, with the Southwest and the Pueblo peoples and the creation of the New Mexico museum system and then the School of American Archeology And in all of these visitors, guests to New Mexico were all in the same dinner parties They were all in the same circles So, I think that has a lot of connections of why And then, also, if you’re married to Stieglitz and you’re in New York City, of course you’re gonna run across (indistinct) and museums and who’s the hot young archeologists Oh, (indistinct), Oh, Edgar Lee Hewitt, who is in very much in cahoots with all these museum systems And then, going back to the concept of creating the superstar starts of Pueblo pottery, and Pueblo work, much of those people also worked for Hewitt and we’re friends with him And he was maybe one of the ones was saying like, oh, this person is the person to check out, or this artist, they work for me So, there’s that also that part of it as well too I don’t feel necessarily that Georgia O’Keeffe was a “steward of seeping.” And I know that her ashes were spread at (speaking in Tewa), that’s the village there And so, you know, I don’t think the steward would do something that disrespectful to the people that she “loved” or to the landscape If she, you know, she should have done that elsewhere, she should have been buried somewhere So, just the fact alone that she threw her ashes and spread it over in ancestral Tewa village, you know, in my thought is that she is not a steward of that land – Also (indistinct) is very significant, in Dene culture too I don’t wanna speak too much on that cause I’m not Dene, but I know that that’s a very significant say – I think her project or this idea of art and collection or the places where we fall in love with things is all our responsibility to continue to interrogate You know, she’s now dead so we really, all of these interpretations are other people’s interpretations of what she meant or what she intended Unless we’re hearing directly from her memoirs or her voice So, again, it’s, you know, we need to interrogate what we’re placing value on and how we’re continuing to do this in a collection mode or in an educational mode I wanna highlight COVID like Jason mentioned Like, so, we have a really low rate Our hospitals aren’t overwhelmed at this moment And this gives people the right that can travel from other States to come here, and lay claim to this area Whether for that’s the place where it’s less of a threat And again, those are people that can afford to travel and can have second houses here and all of that different aspect Thinking about the displacement and gentrification that’s happening in the Abiquiu area, and how we have legacies of families that are agricultural But we also know that the economic ability in this area is not great, but people that can then afford to buy houses are buying them here And then, that’s gonna displace and transform these different places So. again, the ownership of land and what does that mean? And if you’re looking at homes and other places, what are you considering as the history of that place? Because I always feel like for me, you know, I still live in my Pueblo community and I have relatives and members that go outside the world and then come back and then, they wanna change the Pueblo into California or into D.C. right?
And again, part of our responsibility is this again, what are we maintaining here in our area? And yes, we could have those privileges, but there’s also this place of communalism in our communities And that’s still complex for us to figure out as tribal communities, Pueblo communities And what does that mean? You know, and we’ve had shifts in governance processes, which I also don’t feel as often the best interest of our community in the long run around sovereignty and sovereignty issues But, you know, so, these are things that we all have to have the responsibility of continuing to interrogate for ourselves to figure out how is this all coming into being, and what does that mean for this place in this space, And all of us? – Totally And just as an addendum to that, you know, of course, Georgia O’Keeffe, wasn’t part of that extremely violent history of manifest destiny And I think we can all acknowledge that, you know But I think what we can also acknowledge at the same time and hold is that what manifest destiny did was it created the inheritance in which people could live in places like New Mexico in the way that they did So, manifest destiny really is a violent history that’s meant to clear space and to create land for settlement, right? So, you look at Yellowstone, one of the first national parks, and it looks like it’s empty, but it was actually inhabited and cleared off But when you see the kind of visual representation of that space, you would never ever know So, what manifest destiny is, is that’s the first step you clear the land Second step, is you create this idea that occupation is possible And so, she is an inheritor of that legacy, even if she didn’t commit those kinds of atrocities Anybody who’s coming out of the 19th century from the East coast and moving in our direction is actually benefiting from policies that enabled white settlement in the rest of the U.S And that’s like a really complicated thing So, no, she didn’t like, she wasn’t part of it And, you know, but we had the reason why we have American exceptionalism and this idea about individuality, it comes from that era And so, I think we can complicate that narrative a little bit – And not only that there’s also that (indistinct) Is that how you say it? – Yes – Just like the great expanse, right? (indistinct) utilize, if it’s not being stripped or mined, or appropriated or extracted in some fashion, it doesn’t, it’s not, you know, it’s all up for the taking it’s barren It’s, there’s nothing exists there – Right, or if it’s not (indistinct) – [Christina] Yeah – I think it’s interesting that you say, well, and this is part of my own personal research and things in my own experience too Of where you’re saying George O’Keeffe wasn’t, she didn’t choose this, but she was actually a product of displacement of native peoples So, she was born in 1887 in of Sun Prairie, Wisconsin So, Sun Prairie is actually a suburb of Madison, Wisconsin, which is the capital city of Wisconsin And Wisconsin was created as a State in 1848 So, she was, you know, this is 40 years after she was born And so, Madison is the ancestral village of, it’s actually called Teejop And it means four lakes, there’s four lakes there And so, the city was clear, there’s many several sacred spots on the university campus I am a graduate University of Wisconsin, so go badgers But the bad thing about that is that the entire campus was cleared, the ancestral whole norms were, just part of that whole manifest destiny And even the way that Sun Prairie was established it was because there were 45 men that were sent out by President Van Buren to establish the capital city and they were traveled from Milwaukee to Madison and it was raining and came out, emerged out of the sun, sun was on the Prairie, carved their name into a tree, say Sun Prairie Wisconsin And that’s like, (laughs) how more destructive can you get?
You know, the fact that you carve your name in the landscape like that So, I would beg to differ again, as her being just part of this mentality And if you know, Wisconsin, and, you know, Kenosha was in the news the other day So, you’re a product be an environment, I think – Yes. Thank you, Jason Absolutely She shaped by this ideology Which becomes her land (indistinct) Thank you Here’s a question And this is also for the O’Keeffe Museum So, what tangible steps do you see the Georgia O’Keeffe Museum taking to address these settler legacies? – Silence – We have reparations in the chat box – So, I’m trying to kind of keep myself quiet because this is not my panel and I’m listening and learning And this is incredible This is such a great discussion And I have a number of things I’d love to contribute, but I’m also trying to, again, like, leave space and stay out of it But I do think the question really does relate to the O’Keeffe Museum and what opportunities and responsibilities we have and in the silence that was there I think I would strongly welcome and encourage the panelists to help us understand what are our obligations, our opportunities, our responsibilities are I several months ago, asked staff about real rent and it’s a concept we’re very interested in discussing Maybe I’m just missing it I don’t see any structure regionally for that kind of reparation So, help us understand how an organization like ours could make a meaningful difference So, I think that’s one kind of way of responding, but also it’s a question I think we, as an organization are very much committed to doing the hard work of learning and understanding, not just to Georgia O’Keeffe was and her legacy and, you know, she very much was of her time, for better and for worse And she wrote the stories of the West Cowboy Indian adventures that were written out of that manifest destiny history that gave her a romanticized ideal of the West and help plant that desire to possess a piece of the West, regardless of the dislocation that might create And in turn her own idealized vision of what this place is, has planted that seed for additional generations, equally unaware of the dislocation they create And, you know, I have to wrestle with that as an individual living in this region And my organization has to wrestle with that in terms of how we operate But apart from her as a historic being, we are an organization in this place of this community And I think we are crying very hard to learn what that means and what our responsibility is to be a good neighbor, to be a responsible neighbor, to be a respectful neighbor, and to use our visibility and our platform to make a positive impact rather than kind of blindly or inadvertently stumbling forward without thinking about the impact we have on this region So, I don’t necessarily have all the answers, but I very much have a commitment to understanding and learning and welcome feedback about what we can be doing as an organization – Well, I don’t know if you saw the news recently, but this very, the Yale Union and Oregon Arts Organization has voluntarily repatriated It’s only building to a native American group in recognition of historic tribal ownership of the land So, that might be something to consider – I did, and I’ve been thinking about that Yeah (laughs) Yeah (indistinct) There are some really powerful things that are possible If we’re able to have open dialogue I mean, this kind of program, one of the reasons I’m so excited about us having a program like this, and you heard it when we all first talked about what this could look like is, us as an organization of privilege, learning to listen and asking for honest criticism and being comfortable being uncomfortable
as we learn about how we can be a better organization – Thank you – I think one as we’re talking about being a better neighbor and things like that I will thank you for the invitation to speak tonight I know that there is little to know our connection to the local New Mexico populations And I’m aware of that O’Keeffe Museum opened in 1997, which has been 23 years And in those 23 years, I’ve never been in the actual exhibition space I’ve been into the gift store and that’s it So, I think that’s part of it, of being, you know, there are some exclusivity to the museum I’m not too sure, in my research I looked at how much tourists were $45 a person to take the tour of the museum $65 to take the tour of the behind the scenes $85 to do a photography tour per person So, that’s a little bit out of my price range, you know Since the museum was closed, I don’t know what the admission ticket is for a member of the public And I’m sure you have a membership that you probably get a small discount from So, those are some of those things and maybe something for the Georgia O’Keeffe Museum to do, is to also reach out to the local Pueblo communities and their community schools and maybe create some type of programs where they’re able to teach the kids about who Georgia O’Keeffe is and maybe the kids can teach the museum of what Tewa country is rather than O’Keeffe country So, I think those are some, some things like that I think there’s a lot of opportunities for partnerships with the schools and things like that, especially now with as we’re moving into online platforms and things like that So, I think that’s something that should be something to thought about Or even do like the Indian Pueblo Cultural Center or the Institute of American Indian Arts Museum opener, Museum of Contemporary Native American Art Museum Or you offer a free admission to Tewa people Maybe you have to show you the tribal ID card, but that’s something that might be an option as well – So, I would also like, consider the deconstruction of museums Like we build this fortune, or we build this maintenance around museums and these structures, and we created a culture around it where people go visit and learn If we deconstructed all of that money and put that into our educational system in some way, for our young people and had, you know, maybe then traveling You know, traveling displays or things that everyone could access This is the same conversation we need to have around the structures and the monuments We go to D.C. because they have these big old monuments We have these little tiny monuments here in New Mexico, and we pay maintenance for all of these structures really, which could then be going into healthcare, universal healthcare for all of us We could rethink that whole concept, repatriating all the art, the Museum Hill in Santa Fe, a lot of the stuff for indigenous communities that is housed there had ceremonial and everyday purpose uses And those things shouldn’t be in climate controlled, whatever, blah, blah, blah You know, those were meant for certain aspects and I think that played a repatriation back to the communities that they came from, because those were often stolen, right? Those were often take in different aspects And so, again, how can we think about this deconstructing this process that we’ve created around this society? Because people feel good about contributing and these different aspects But that’s a whole lot of wealth and resources that can go back to our communities and be invested in different ways So, again, a lot of the work that we do as nonprofits and other things, and this is for us (indistinct) I have to think about too It’s like we create these jobs ourselves And so, how do we then back out of that and have this other way of being incorporating that? I say that as we finally purchased our building as an organization What does it mean for us to own, this space, this home? where much of that wealth, and so like, in the community that you are there in Abiquiu, it’s like, what does it mean for them to have these structures there that they can utilize in different ways and not just this five to seven for,
you know, whatever the operating hours are But how do those really become communal spaces? And so, I think, again, we’ve got to get outside of our boxes and kind of think about what it is right now and what it could be repatriating the land or using those taxes to then go back into the village of Abiquiu and the surrounding communities But I think it does start with really having these honest and truthful conversations We need to do that in our cities and our counties as well, to talk about, kind of, how are we honoring the hearing and now, not just the past Like, I feel like in this country, we get stuck on the past of, we’re honoring these, what do they wanna call him? What is it, personalities? You know, for any of us, we’re all contributors to our wellbeing in our communities And so, we highlight certain leaders or we highlight certain people when it’s really all of us that are really contributing to the realities of our community So, again, how are we rethinking and having these conversations? – Yes, yes, yes And this is all to say, it goes beyond like diversity initiatives, which like, I’ve just, I’ve heard so much about diversity initiatives and that’s just so really kind of feeble understanding, I think of what equity looks like Both equity in our economy and sustainability, but also equity and representation And we have some like really great radical people here that are imagining a potential future And I think that that’s what we need, right? Is this kind of radical imagination about how do we move out of, as Corrine puts it this box It’s literally become this box that we, it’s like a horizon we can’t see past But once we can start to radically imagine the way that our spaces can function It’s like, oh, wow, there’s so many possibilities And it’s beyond diversity initiatives, it’s beyond, you know, like the kind of typical really feeble things that usually take place I think it does have to come up from the space of radicalism So, I think, you know, I think we’re almost done unless anybody has anything to add – Are you seeing the chat box, Alicia? Are you monitoring that? – Oh, I was briefly – Okay, is there anything you wanna touch on? – Sure – Talking about multicultural mural, preserving (indistinct) Santa Fe, speaking up in preservation of art in Santa Fe and taking them (indistinct), you know, supporting the herbalist removal – Yes – [Christina] Yeah, political, it’s time – Right, and I think this is (indistinct) – You know, what does playing safe got us? So, yeah, get radical, like you said – And part of it is like reflecting on your own privilege Like I know I have a lot of privilege and it’s like, okay, well, how do I instrumentalize my privilege? And this is the thing that everybody in Santa Fe should really be thinking about is like, how do you instrumentalize your privilege so that it’s going towards, or weaponized your privilege? Let’s say, so that it’s going towards something that is not just going to make you feel good, or alleviate your guilt Cause that’s like, we don’t wanna deal with that kind of situation We want intention, we want movement, we want a kind of radical relational context here, radical relationality and being together – And I wanna say like, question your privilege around access Like there was one like how you can visit our lands and in a respectful way? And I’m like, we do have visiting hours, right? We have our places And this moment of COVID, we’re really asking people not to visit our lands We’re closing down our spaces to protect our people And yet people have this idea of access and privilege and that they can just come and they can just go into these different places, like the Sturgis, riding through on your motorcycles to get to somewhere else But really, we’re really trying to protect our people from this virus that none of us really understand And again, we have feast days where we respectfully invite you to come in
and participate as an observer Our places are open So, respect those places where we’re inviting you in and respect when we’re saying, no, it’s not for you It’s not, you know, those accesses aren’t there I think that’s, again, this is a place where we’re trying to teach our young people boundaries around who has access to their body So, respect the no, right? Respect when we’re saying, no, this is not the moment or time And don’t try and push it Don’t try to coerce us We’re trying to set boundaries where our young people, that adults don’t even understand Wearing a mask at this time, people are asking people to wear masks when you’re out in public and these different places And yet people are fighting that because of their individual right and disregarding the whole communal aspect of, it’s to keep all of us safe So, really, again, and just look at your places where you feel like you have the privilege or the ability to access things and question, like, do I really, should I really do that? Men with women when they say no, respect no It’s really does come down to those basic, acknowledging a person as a whole nother being that’s there with you and has the same access to a different power and voice and all of that and representation And when people are telling you, this is not something that we’re comfortable with, or we don’t wanna have, respect that and listen to it And then, maybe find, we all collectively can find a venue to talk about these things But yeah, I’m like, my community is closed and we’re really small communities at this point Some are larger than us, but we’re trying to protect our elders and our young people – Boundaries – Agreed Respect and boundaries, exactly – How do we (indistinct)– – The boundaries of “O’Keeffe country.” – Oh, God – [Alicia] We’re not using that term – That’s done, that’s a wrap (indistinct) 2019 yo (indistinct) – But hold others accountable (indistinct) Any closing thoughts? – Land back (indistinct) – Jason, other closing thoughts? Thank you, Christina – Quick closing thoughts No, I’m just thank you for the invitation to speak And like I said, be a good neighbor That’s really about what it’s about And like Corrine said, it’s about consent, it’s about asking, it’s about understanding yes and understanding no And, you know, those of having background in tribal administration and cultural resources and protection of land, you know, we’ve had so many people encroaching on our lands, despite a sign saying, Santa Clara, Pueblo property stay out San Ildefonso Pueblo, stay out Yet we see so many people in the back areas saying, well, this is my recreation area I used to ride my motorcycle here in the 1980s I always was here Well, dude, it’s 2020 here, now it’s almost 2021 Those days are over So, I think that’s part of understanding it’s time for a change for a lot of things – Instead of rugged individualism, let’s promote rugged communalism, New Mexico too Thank you for the opportunity to be here I appreciate it – I’m really appreciating and respecting everyone’s time that you took to listen to us And I hope that you take back and reflect on what was shared here and that you implement some of the things that we’ve mentioned and that you continue to learn, right? Like, we’re not the be all end all of this, the indigenous representation in this community Again, everybody has their perspective and their thoughts and we need to be open to hearing all of it And then, coming to that communal decision together in different aspects And we’re in this moment here in our country that I hope we respect all peoples and all perspectives And that know that people should not be murdered or killed or taken advantage of because you can And so, I that’s my ask, that we continue to have these courageous conversations and dive deeper and also make sure like Christina is saying, that we have actions to back up It’s just not a conversation that there’s actions that are gonna come from you learning and you opening up and you taking on something different – We’ve educated you tonight So, what are you gonna do with it? That’s what I wanna know What are you gonna do with this new found knowledge? – But at the same time,
don’t expect every person of color, or every native person, or every black person, or relative to educate you This is where self-education comes in and use your resources So, we’re here for y’all now, but– – We need you to step up – Yeah So, help yourself help yourself – Donate to Tewa Women United, donate to Three Sisters Collective Donate to Alisha has Venmo Buy Jason Garcia’s art Buy back some of Corey, Dr. Sanchez’s grandmother’s artwork and give it to her How about that? Thank you, give back some of the collections, sell some of those Georgia O’Keeffe art pieces and distribute that wealth back into the community I mean, I could go on all day, but you know, I can’t do that because I don’t have the leverage, but you all can So, do it, be it, live it Not yesterday, now moving forward It’s time for the change We’re waiting for you all – Thank you – Thank you, Corrine Thank you, Jason, thank you, Christina (indistinct) – Thank you all Have a good evening