Grow Your Business With Visa – FinTech to BigTech – NOAH18 London

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Grow Your Business With Visa – FinTech to BigTech – NOAH18 London

To get things started we can roll the video Great now, I’m just anything at all So that video I think is just a snapshot of a how far we’ve come as kind of a payments in commerce ecosystem. But also some of the enormous Opportunities and perhaps some of the challenges that we’ve got to face and and and as Dee Hawk said and it’s interesting You know that that statement that Dee Hawk said about money becoming electronic in just a matter of electrons moving around the world He said that sixty years ago And so it’s interesting to be here that there’s no event That’s evolved a lot over ten years and we see FinTech is an increasingly important part of it and this is as well visas 60th anniversary and we’ve obviously seen a lot of change in the past sixty years in Terms of our in terms of our ecosystem as the video pointed out over that sixty years based on D Hawks vision You know We we’ve created this enormous payments ecosystem More than twenty thousand banks fifty million merchants more than 3 billion card holders And and as the video said there’s been two pieces that have made visa successful all the way along One is we were like the original FinTech? Right. It wasn’t called that then it was called payments and it was a little paper card that said BankAmericard on it, but We were a FinTech. We just didn’t know it and Technology remains at the heart of visa and I would say over the past five years We’ve really worked internally to transform even our culture from being a payments company Which is I think the way we were looked at five years ago To a technology company and we’ll talk a little bit more about that on the panel I think the second thing I’d say is is that Partnerships has also been at the key of visa if you take a look at that ecosystem acquires merchants banks consumers you don’t grow that ecosystem without a focus on partners and Interestingly for the first kind of 50 years It was a bit of a closed ecosystem because we’re trying to achieve scale and so we’d have merchants acquires Issuers and the network in the middle, but as I’ll talk about in a few minutes, we’ve had to change completely The way we think about our ecosystem and about partnerships in order to address some of the things you saw in that video So when we look at the landscape then and this is just an introduction of the panel and not introduce some of the themes We are undergoing Unprecedented change in in the payments and commerce landscape if you in and and and what it’s in kind of an unprecedented Innovation at the same time if you take a look at what’s happening on technology Whether it’s that mobile centricity and and almost mobile becoming the first ubiquitous technology in the world If you take a look at the emergence of operating systems and applications and how dominant they are in terms of driving consumer behavior if you take a look at the emergence more recently of artificial intelligence and machine learning and all that’s now creeping into everything including payments if we take a look at blockchain and

And the emergence of other ledger based technologies that arguably on top of the visa network or other networks can create even more Flexibility in terms of how we think about commerce if we think about augmented reality and virtual reality Moving from a gaming relationship to where there are now apps where you can make in pert in virtual reality Purchases using your voice in your irises. We’re already there If you take if you take a look at the complete transformation of the point-of-sale where it was very well understood what a point-of-sale looked like five years ago, but now You know through companies like Square and eyes √ętil and some up and others Through near point-of-sale technologies order ahead and all those models payments moving from physical point of sale to the cloud The emergence of Amazon go and I understand more recently You know some other big brand names on the high street are moving to that model The point-of-sale isn’t even a point of sale anymore commerce is happening everywhere So technology is one of the themes that we think about as we’ve got to expand our base of partnerships at visa the second thing we think about is the changing role of the consumer as a result of the power of mobile devices the emergence of social networks the ubiquity of operating systems and apps Consumers are in more control than they’ve ever been Right. So again in terms of a closed ecosystem where the focus is really on the issuers and consumers and Merchants were kind of takers of services it’s not that case anymore of Consumers expect their payments to actually look not like the next best mobile banking app or the very best mobile banking app but the very best app period consumers expect mobile banking and commerce to be like Facebook like Whatsapp like their best enterprise app their best gaming app their best music app. That’s the benchmark not just the best banking app and so Consumers are driving our rate of innovation Of forcing banks merchants acquires to think differently about how they build those consumer experiences and then the last thing that I think is happening is is Regulation, you know? which is always played a role in payments and financial services is playing an increasing role and that’s obviously here in Europe when we think about PSC 2 and GDP are but it’s it’s global some of the concepts around open banking and driving innovation and and you know, lowering costs and introducing new players These are global phenomena. They’re concentrated here in Europe, which is why it’s such a fascinating place to be in payments right now But it’s it’s it’s happening all over Europe So when visa looked at? Our heritage for 60 years and then all of these changes there’s a number of really substantial things We’ve done over the past five years to change visa from that payments company to a technology company The first thing we did is we created the visa developer platform and created our first open api’s So you can go today to the visa developer platform Register and depending on who you are in the ecosystem start working with visa Api’s in a sandbox environment and use some of the capabilities. We’ve built to build new solutions That’s the first thing we’ve done The second thing we done we did five or six years ago was start a strategic partnerships team We recognized that it wasn’t gonna be just the banks driving innovation and payments It was gonna be all these new players and we started with what we call the really big technology players Facebook Amazon Google Microsoft Samsung Apple Etc and developed new relationships with them to keep them inside the payments ecosystem and help them innovate But then we’ve gone to many smaller partners We were an early investor in square in stripe in clarinha in marquetta and even smaller companies like solaris bank And and and behalf and so we’ve become even more active when we think about Partnerships in terms of expanding that ecosystem and we have, you know, very active discussions with with more than a couple hundred Strategic partners around the world that are starting to drive commerce The third thing we did and this is more recent and focused in the in Europe is we started a FinTech program I mean one of the themes of this event is the emergence of fintechs We’ve identified now more than 200 new issuing of index just neo banks that are launching or planning to launch in Europe alone more than 200 and I’ll be the first to say that we didn’t Visa was late to realize how quickly some of these were going to grow and how quickly consumer adoption was going to happen But now we’ve got a dedicated FinTech program with a dedicated business dem I won’t force a change in our rules a change in our membership Requirements a really proactive approach just supporting these fintechs as they try to get off the ground and we’re gonna talk about that During our panel and then the final thing we announced back in May at Monday 2020 or June Emma and that money 2020 Was the creation of a dedicated venture program for Europe where we’ve earmarked up to a hundred million dollars over The next four to five years to focus on a broad range of investments across FinTech Technologies as again, we expand our focus on partnerships and continue to broaden the ecosystem So as Dee Hawk said, you know and trying to create this ecosystem 660 years ago

Partnerships has kind of been at the key. It’s never been more important We’re gonna have to continue to think differently as new players new business models new technologies Come and come into play and that’s really the focus for the panel So that was just an introduction to the panel and now let me introduce the panelists and we’ll get started first I’ll introduce curry Rickson who’s a co-founder and CMO for Yahoo, Finance Which is a mobile first credit card and he’ll talk a little bit more about his company We’ve got Laura McCracken who’s the head of financial services and payments for Facebook a company? probably most you’ve you’ve heard about so I’ll ask her a separate question because you guys all know who Facebook is and then we’ve got Virage Georgia Tonya the CEO and co-founder of pocket, which is a UK a challenger bank So again a good panel representing this this diverse ecosystem of partners that are emerging visa works closely with all of these and we’ll have a we’ll have a chance to Explore this partnership theme a little bit more So kid I’m gonna start with you because not everyone in the room may understand You know, what what Yaya does so spend a few minutes talking a little bit about yourself Yaya, you know How you fit into this kind of Commerce ecosystem and then just an introduction in terms of how important? Partnerships were without their small companies or large companies in terms of getting getting your company off the ground Yeah, so, my name is Kirsten So I have basically built my career working as an entrepreneur basically I would build Venice ventures within a lot within a larger corporate which means that whenever we getting get Investments to scale a business. It has to be scalable. Otherwise, we won’t get the funding So that’s in my DNA and at this time I’m really pleased to Announce that we will be launching Gaia soon for the public in fact Yaya is So what we have done is to build one scalable platform that can cater to different credit products that will help You know people in the different circumstances to manage their spending the credit better than with today’s offering in the market we launched with UK Walmart, like two weeks ago. We launched instant online credit for e-commerce first four with the George brand And we back in May we issued the Yaya card an app Which is really about making it really simple to manage your credit card In a more digital way for busy impatient people and I would love to talk more about it but that’s some sort of basically what we’re doing and we are basically going from beta to Public beta in January. Thank you Viraj with pocket maybe talk a little bit about Kind of where pockets? Come from where you guys are focusing now in terms of a challenger bank in the UK and kind of where you are and your ever Lucien and if you can a little bit about how partnerships have helped So i’m the co-founder of pocket We are a digital bank focused on thin credit file customers across across the UK So we really target sort of the bottom twenty six million In the UK market, we provide a digital crown account very simple onboarding to minutes people get an account with us And then do all the day-to-day transactional banking that you would imagine so paying bills sending money domestic in internationally And then we provide now to lending products. So Two one is a salary backed loan product So customers can get a borrow up to 10% of that annual income As a loan through pocket and then pay back pay that back through their weekly and monthly salary payments we have a second ending product, which is just about to launch which is a a revolving line of credit so 250 pounds real-time Sort of effectively like an overdraft And then the third product we have is a product that helps customers to build their credit score and credit history so we’re feeding our data into the Experian Equifax Call credit and helping customers to build up their score and we’ve already had a pretty big impact on that side about eighty percent of Customers who’ve taken they’ve seen 40 to 100 point increase from their credit score so will be kind of moving across IT 3 cool verticals and financial services around delivering these products our customers that’s lending savings and investment and then insurance and the way that we think about partnership and partnership has been a very sort of core part of Of our ability to grow and deliver the product that we’ve built is kind of fits across three areas supply chain partnership so that’s like the likes of visa and and processing partners where it’s really kind of the pipes and the delivery of the of the platform

Then sort of customer acquisition partnership So can we partner with organizations that can help and yield and get us to to acquire more customers and then product partnerships? So we don’t want to build every single product ourselves. We want to work with selected partners and Build a product that we want to control the user experience, but we don’t need to be the underwriter from an insurance perspective We don’t have to have the lone sitting on our balance sheet. And so that’s how we kind of think about the partnership angle Yeah, well I want to come back That because I think that model of not building everything yourself and moving more quickly to partnership models is something that we wouldn’t have thought About the same way even ten years ago before we came back to that Laura Facebook obviously a big tech but it wasn’t that long ago That Facebook was a small company and so in your evolution you you’ve dealt with you know big companies when you’re a small tech and now even bigger companies as you seek to continue to expand the Facebook’s offering and and and And and global reach. So talk to me a little bit about How you think about partnerships today both? To focus on emerging technologies to continue to innovate but as well the big global players that you work with today I’ll take that in two parts the first Facebook and how we work with the broader ecosystem and entrepreneurs and FinTech players, etc so as you know, as you mentioned Facebook has only been around for about 14 years so launched in Zuckerberg dorm room and Today has grown into the world’s largest social network social media company of 2.2 billion on Facebook 1.5 billion on whatsapp and about a billion on both Instagram and messenger So I think what we’ve developed is is a really a great platform that engages in hopes to connect the world and builds meaningful communities and Also a very engaged customer base Quick factoid. I was reading the other day that this is not just Facebook But the average customer around the world the average person around the world spends a hundred thirty five minutes a day on social media That’s almost over two hours a day. So You’re talking about a highly engaged group of people that cover almost, you know, half of the adult population around the world So I think that’s what we bring to the table and Zuckerberg would say he’s very lucky that to have happened upon this and have benefited from the network effects that helped to scale the business so rapidly, but he would also say that Couldn’t have done it without partners and couldn’t have built such a meaningful platform for consumers without partnerships What I was gonna I brought my my Bible I called platform strategy and I was after I joined Facebook. I read this book and I Brought it. I wanted to read a quote to you. That’s really meaningful to me by Tom Goodwin Uber the world’s largest taxi company owns no vehicles Facebook the world’s most popular media owner creates no content Alibaba the world’s most valuable retailer has no inventory an Airbnb the world’s largest accommodation provider owns, no real-estate Something interesting is happening And so back to Zack I think we made a strategic decision early on that we wanted to create an open platform and So we developed the developers platform to enable people to create Experiences for customers and it started off as games and social experiences But we’re evolving now and this is really day one into FinTech as well So we’re we have a developer’s platform on messenger and we’re starting to get partners developing things like chat BOTS Etc And one of them for example is plum. I don’t know if you guys have heard of plum but plum Yeah, she I’m seeing some heads nodding Plum is a company that helps people to save money it connects into their banks and monitors their spending and behaviors and patterns and helps them to save little amounts of money every single You know a couple times a week and makes it easy and effortless and they decided to launch on facebook Messenger Because they recognized the fact that you know We had a lot of people using it and it would give them a platform to grow from and that was a strategic choice they made they might make an app eventually themselves as well and on top without they partnered with a peer-to-peer lending platform that enables people to make more in interest rates So I think that’s a nice little example of how we can work with startups and plum is definitely a classic UK FinTech startup that was able to leverage our platform To build something new that’s meaningful for customers Sokurah I want to also come back to how you work both ways with partners Karen in terms of Yayoi. You guys are very close to kind of commercial launch you’re you’re going through kind of an open beta now and

You’ve worked, you know worked with visa you’ve worked with other partners What are some of the lessons learned from engaging partners in terms of lead times complexity? What’s worked? And what what hasn’t what are some of the things that you would take away as a startup trying to work with a players? Well, first of all Depending on your situation, but I can speak for myself two things in my situation as a startup you are vulnerable and the second thing is when What for example player searches visa helps to bring certainty? So I used to manage a global partnership of foreign mobile financial services launches in seven countries And it’s and that was with MasterCard. Sorry But this time with visa which which I’m really happy about is that our principle membership status allows us to issue products on behalf of other retailers and brands which is gives us a flying start because it’s really amazing to get the traction and the excitement upfront without us actually having to do the work and that helps us as a start-up get the buzz out and it also helps to bring her the ability because Once we have launched our beta everything works we obviously we wanted to repurpose this and make this accessible because due to open banking initiative and so on it’s all about sweating your assets We have a license so we can not only grow through one organic route in our opinion We need several rails and together with visa as a principal member we are able to take on the world and the rush for you Talk to I describe for me a little bit how you see the underbanked opportunity in the UK? Just give her an idea of kind of how you think of the scale or that opportunity and what the UK landscape looks like Yeah, sure. So I mentioned sort of briefly like, you know, we really focus on I would say the bottom 25 million consumers in the UK, so that bottom 25 million can’t afford a 250-pound surprise in the month on their on you know These would be the income that they have so very much living kind of on the bread line And what we’ve found is that right through the product stack so all the way from day-to-day banking of an account and paying bills all the way through to lending and Savings and insurance and other products that group are really really poorly served A lot of them are going to pay their lenders doorstep lenders check-cashing shaft cash money transfer services Yeah, like Western Union a money grab and all of these are offline opaque expensive don’t really solve the the users problems and That’s where we see. Like I’m we just see a huge opportunity to kind of really to really to really Take on that space and if you look at the European market, it’s about a hundred and seventy million people So including this sort of 25 million in the UK So you’ve got a pretty big market kind of on your doorstep where just hasn’t had the attention That it needs and we’re seeing a just a very interesting opportunity around building an amazing product that Customers love using there’s huge variety about 50% of our customers every month come just through referrals so, you know, we’re seeing a really interesting a Really interesting opportunity to kind of take on that market and as you start launching more and more products You start realizing that you become more and more applicable across that across that do you know that that sort of narrow income segment but it’s interesting in 2018 that The cost of the financial services is the highest for that segment. Yeah. Yeah. We haven’t solved that yet No, we I mean, it’s it’s I mean that I was looking at some stats there the data average the average cost per year is like 200 pounds per year for just very simple levels of banking for this segment, which is Which is pretty high Should should not be that expensive I think we’re about 10 times cheaper for Versus that number and and and you talked earlier in your introduction that you’ve really focused on obviously Building your business around a core differentiator But moving early to partnerships you realize you don’t have to do everything or build everything yourself Is is is what pocket focuses on kind of a deep understanding of the market and kind of UI UX or how would you kind? Of describe, you know the secret sauce for Pocket where you need to develop and then you can rely on partners as well Yes, so the way that we look at it is for us it’s really about building like the best-in-class user experience an amazing customer service and building the right product set one of the things that we’ve seen is that You know unlike some of the other sort of FinTech Digital banks that you’re seeing out there who are kind of going down the market-place route Where there’s lots of different choice, what we’ve seen is that a lot of our customers actually don’t want to make you know

They don’t want to look at alone and say I have 10 choices about who I take the late learn from they want they trust us their salaries coming into our accounts We’re building that that relationship with that customer and then providing the you know, the right products for their needs And so we really see ourselves as kind of the the center of that of that hub and then we’re building out lots of spokes Which should be the other products there that customers need so we we we really see and so partnership is a huge part for us As we both our lending products are being done through partners our credit building products through a partner So there’s some things that we will fully want to own in-house like the day to day transactional banking side International remittances a lot of that stuff is managed internally, but we think partnership is a great way for us to grow thanks and Laura in your introduction you talked about how The move for Facebook has been relatively recent into into commerce and payments Obviously p2p we see that and we work closely on that together What is your focus in terms of looking across all of the Facebook assets and then the kind of the commerce priorities that you see Yeah, commerce is definitely my number one priority. So my role is to lead And financial services partnerships and Europe and Asia Pacific. So we have We’ve always accepted payments for ads and games and donations not always what we have We do accept payments for as donations and games. Well, we don’t accept payments for our marketplace Instagram and we’re just now getting into p2p as we’ve launched with Visa and UK in France But we’re developing conversational Commerce and p2p and even pita micro merchants via messaging platforms So my focus at the moment is finding the right partners Finding the right partners who can help light up as many countries across Europe And Asia, and of course, I’ve got a colleague who does Latin America and us etc So finding the right partnership, you can help us to to scale quickly And one thing I can tell you about Facebook is we move incredibly fast. I’ve been on a six-week sprint the last six weeks and From beginning to end. We’ve like basically designed how our check out would look like on on marketplace and Instagram and have Determined the right partners and are finalizing term sheets and hopefully we’ll have something launched by q1 of next year for both marketplace and p2p Payments, okay Kyra coming back to you for a second Yao’s close to commercial launch, you know, it’s interesting start up in a very fast-growing FinTech environment What do you think is gonna cause or gonna change the most in the next two or three years and and how do you think about Yaya’s focus whether its geographic expansion broader product lines I mean what are some of the trends you see that would affect the way you think about yo-yo and how it’s gonna grow? Well the trend is that People are getting a lot more impatient So we are trying to live up to these demands like for example when you sign up for credit You don’t sign up for credit to go through the forms and wait days for your car to arrive You sign up and you you sign up to Eber you sign up to book hotel room you get it instantly Regardless of where we are and we’re trying to create this fluid experience that I love about Facebook. I mean, I’m maybe spending two hours by myself Okay, so I think I think so we’re really trying to create this product for these type of people that expect things to happen now and I think that’s a big change and I also see that the attention span of people is It’s really changing. So that means that we must be relevant or at all time. And that’s why we are Going through the paints now to work on two products in parallel every but it would have been easier if we we launched one product yesterday, but we want to go through the pains because At the same time we are launching The yarra critical for the public we have launched instant online credit with Walmart UK Fine-tuning critical capabilities such as scoring Collections repayments because this is not all about creating a sexy front end. It has to work and to end Likewise we have also been in meetings with with Visa, you know, all the global partners that we can potentially white-label our solution for Which allows us to make design decisions? In the indie user experience at the outset not later because I’ve been in so many situations We do something and when the customers are there, it’s too late to change

So we are Really I would say Looking forward to bring something for the people who are really impatient who would be surprised that you know, okay They have a like, you know digital credit card, but you know They would be surprised that if to make a big-ticket item they can convert that to an installment loan. For example Which typically is managed in silos? I mean want to kill my silence between products and focus on what the customer needs right there on that so this is a question for all the panel’s because we’re rethinking our whole credit strategy at visa because we see as current generation you know that are approaching 18 and certainly generations following they Think about credit the same way that I would in terms of revolving credit and having this line of credit through my credit card But this series of very transparent well understood short-term loans for larger purchases And that’s just how they’re gonna manage their financial lives Do you agree that that’s the way it’s heading and that that we’ve got to think differently about? About how this generation and the next we’re going to think about credit exactly and that’s also the danger because We I mean we love connectivity, but it can also be very dangerous I used to create products for the underserved and that’s very it’s very important to To factor in socially responsible Lending and I think that’s something we need to think about when we think about the future or credit because we have a huge responsibility to ensure that we offer credit to people who are can can afford it and Are in control of their spending? Otherwise everything you do is detrimental so credit can be a bad thing But we make it a good thing. So I think In Viraj you look at it the same way You know What we’re seeing is that customers want Much smaller much more manageable super transparent ways of borrowing so like for example our overdraft product is 10 P per hundred pounds per day and like they were and it’s simple and it’s easy and that’s what people Want they don’t want to they really understand Aprx T’s around that so I think there’s a real need to like kind of really strip back really simplify Product offerings and I think being responsible is is so important I mean it’s obviously for us it’s a huge thing. A lot of our customers would have been you know, maybe had Bankruptcy before or may have been in significant debt or whatever. It might be. So making sure you’re lending to the right people is a Really crucial element and the fact that you know, what we see is data actually becomes such an important part of our business We’re you know, we’re looking at transactional data So money coming into customers account where they’re spending the types of merchants But then also overlaying that we behavioral data in our app and how they have it how they’re using The actual product itself is another big driver So but yes, we look at it in a very in a very similar way and and for you Laura I mean as you look at your commerce experience a lot of these decisions around transactional lending are driven through these these social media Experiences and and and customer decisions are driven You know through the the people they have involved with their social networks and then recommendations, etc I mean, do you look at it the same way and you look at the way that you can think around? Oay, your social network and be some of the data that you look at to support these models, you know about responsible lending It’s going to be transactional driven, etc The view it the same way I just view in terms of trying to create as much choice as possible for the customer because I think in the old days you Just had bank lending credit cards and payday lenders and maybe some loan sharks out there And I think that there’s so much room to create more niche credit lending products and and to letting you know like the peer-to-peer lending I mentioned before because I think you know That could be our peer to peer lending could create whole new buckets that could really cater to people and you can use the the social Element to try to ensure that people are keeping on top of their repayment plans at that track so we’re Last question before we make room for the next panel because I think we’re just about gonna keep everyone on time FinTech growing very quickly. You look at NOAA. It’s not just about finding but it’s becoming an increasingly important part entire new industries unprecedented Venture being invested now in in fin tech, you know more billions than ever before We have the same panel three years from now Fin tech still growing still a lot of innovation. Are we starting to see a bit more mature fin tech industry and consolidation? Well, I obviously see see that’s happening right now and I think People have people realized they don’t have to build it to themselves

which is I mean if you look at and Since I’m here with visa, let’s just give a really solid example you know as in a start-up you have to sell what you have or Utilize what you have, you know, you know giving you have scarce resources, right? But you know with with the visa scheme, for example Instead of just doing following what everyone else is doing? What what can the visa scheme do and not think of it as a credit card? So what we did is that we just redefined and that’s all actually that same Scheme can be utilized for instant online credit. The only difference is that the customer doesn’t see the pin number which is not obvious for everyone but as a start-up we can do that and we have it ready in in months and we’re live and I think we Need to realize that We can’t do it ourselves I’m so happy I used to be traveling in Asia setting up different services and also in Eastern Europe and the main problem was Identification accuracy in ml but nowadays we have these solutions but our sort of become commonplace which allows it to scale and really to make sure you can You know, you don’t have to go through a new project every time we go to a new country for you for example which is fantastic, so I’m just I mean this question to to you, I mean Because services typically being local so typical when I go to a new country they say nope Akira It doesn’t work like that Because then they look at it from the regulatory lenses and you cannot unify the experience from a country B to country C for example and I I Think that’s going to be a change that you will see more global players emerge in this space Laura Three years from now I am hugely optimistic and excited about I’ve been banking and what PST two has to offer I think there’s a lot of trepidation in the market As I’m is understandable with the banks being a bit nervous about this this development But I imagine in three years time that the banks will become platforms or marketplaces so they will have their trusted clients and customers but they will open up and they will take a page out of The Amazons books of the world, you know where you have your own business? But you also have a marketplace and you enable the fintechs of the world to really offer diverse services and tap into your platform and I think that I’m a Not a zero-sum game person, right? I believe in the theory of abundance and there’s a lot out there and I think the most progressive Large banks have gone past this fear of compliance and having to build out that API To looking now how now that they’ve had to build it What what does that mean in terms of growth and strategy and hopefully the most progressive banks are doing that for us Yeah, I mean, I’d echo what? Lauren said that I think you know, we’re in a really exciting phase I think I think three years from now FinTech will be continuing to scale I mean if I think when I set up when I launched in September 2014, there was nowhere near the ecosystem that exists today I mean, you know, we couldn’t even find someone in visa to speak to you know That’s a very different world now Sure by then and so it’s evolved so much, you know and and it’s been incredible and I think in three years that will continue to grow I think The other thing that I think is really interesting is when you look at FinTech is Especially sort of in the banking side. I mean if you think about how big the market is, you know There’s a lot of talk about you know, when we talk to investors or stake holders and everyone’s like yeah But there’s so many of you FinTech banks and basin but when you look at the size of market, we probably occupy 3/4 percent of the UK market if we can’t even look at thinking about Europe or any other global countries and so like the Opportunity is just so is so big. I think that there’s just I think there’s I think I think it’s gonna be super exciting I think you’ll continue to see big investment. I think you might see some consolidation, but I think The leaders will ready sought imagine the next few years. No, I I agree I dare I do think it’s early days I think is as as much as we’ve seen how quickly some of these companies have emerged from from really small companies to now big companies in the space I think people continually underestimate how big the opportunity is its measured in tens of trillions of dollars And and I think that we’ve just started so I thought to Mystic about the next four years as well So listen, I want to thank our panelists Kyra Laura and Virage I want to thank everyone here who found this room at 12:30 for lunch and Enjoy the rest of Noah, Cheers You