Tiverton Town Council Meeting March 4, 2019

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Tiverton Town Council Meeting March 4, 2019

all right good evening supposedly you can hear me it is Monday March 4th, 2019 at about 7:02 and we’ll call the meeting to order with the Pledge of Allegiance ok again good evening and congratulations to those who survived the ice and snow here today we this is I think our fifth well fourth plus our joint workshop I think this is our fourth or fifth meeting essentially that’s been dedicated to budgets we are up against a deadline of Wednesday March 6th I believe to have our transmittal our first transmittal of well I should say our final to the budget committee so that we are all about the budget tonight. Do we want to do a quick roll-call? councilor Hilton president councilor Katz president councilor colter president councilor cook here councilor Driggs councilor Perry is absent he’s ill so our agenda is all about the budget for fiscal year 2019 2020 by budget we mean the budget revenue estimates and possible council resolutions although I don’t underst I don’t think we’re on a deadline on the council resolutions per se but we certainly are on the budgets so correct me if I’m wrong I know the council Katz has a presentation that he’d like to give is there any objection if we just go ahead and turn the floor over to him and then we’ll go from there so I’m just gonna yeah I’m gonna get out of the way too so you can see the screen all right okay I was recently pacing around my lair thinking of all the troubles that the council’s face the town’s facing the Opeth and pensions and and also the opportunities presented to us with casino revenue also a new administrator a new superintendent and I had a crazy crazy notion that I threw out I throw against the wall and see if it sticks and that’s maybe put forward a budget that compromises and puts us on a strong footing to enter New Year to actually come up with a longer term plan so we can get some of these challenges all together and and get some people’s expectations for spending and taxes kind of at least in under discussion for future budget cycles so as I pondered this I formulated for myself now this is not not speaking for Council for goals basically to achieve a tax rate that’s the average among neighboring communities to address structural and capital needs that we clearly have and as I just said to establish a long-term plan that accounts for all liabilities with more stability in budgeting know so we can stop surprising each other and in that way I hope to end the acrimony and division in town so the some of you followed the budget probably my budget presentations in the past will recognize this chart this is the actual tax levies the red line for the town taken from our town audit so they might not match perfectly with FDR dockets and the blue line is what the budget would have been if our 1990 levy continued at inflation and the gray line dotted line is what the 2006 levy would have been that had continued at inflation and as you can see we’ve we’ve long been above either line the actual increase since 1990 has been two hundred and fifty percent at inflation it would have been 98 percent which makes a difference in a total levy of about sixteen and a half million dollars which inflation will hit in the Year 2044 if it continues as as it’s been if we start in 2006 our actual budgets gone up sixty-one percent our levy has gone up sixty-one percent inflation would have increased it by 36 percent and that’s a delta of just under six million dollars and inflation will hit this year’s budget in 2027 another familiar graphic updated for this year the new edition here I anticipated is

Tim Burton’s tax rate in comparison with all the towns that surround us you could debate whether crossing the water into Massachusetts counts but we’ve been doing better as you could see in a prior chart since in the past five years the levy hasn’t grown much at all so that’s brought us down below Somerset and Warren last year actually the the alternate budget would have brought us below Portsmouth as well but we’re under we’re now in ninth out of the 11th in the area a lot of people there but there’s differences of opinion on whether to follow tax rates or tax levies when you’re looking at the town’s changes as we go from year to year the tax rate doesn’t tell you all that much because especially if they’re evaluations it goes up or down and you just end up paying what you pay on your house even if the tax rate changes but if you’re looking across borders the tax rate does matter if you look at the next town over and it’s significantly lower somebody buying a house can buy a bigger house because they expect the tax rate will be lower and they’ll pay less taxes so what ends up happening and I think we had a good natural experiment on this with the last valuation was when when property values and taxes are too high the higher end houses oops sorry the higher end houses will be more sensitive to that difference and so their property values and taxes will decrease because when you’re talking about a million-dollar house you’re talking about something like 100 million dollar a hundred thousand dollars you can spend additional if your tax rates are lower by a few dollars and when that happens because the levy just gets distributed around town according to the property values the lower end houses their tax burden goes up because proportionally they make up more of the total property value in a town and I think we saw that with the last valuation where some of the some of the higher-end houses actually saw tax decreases while some of the working-class and middle-class houses saw tax burden increase and looking at some local real estate statistics I found this fascinating obviously this is correlation I’m not alleging an exact correspondence if you look at these two charts which I got from Altos research real estate research this is they call this the market action index and if you’re at the 30 mark which is around here for to Vernon and I’m here for Portsmouth below that it’s a sell buyers market so you’ll have to bring in your house value down in order to capture the market if you’re above that it’s a seller’s market so people have to pay more to get the same size house and the blue line at the bottom that’s the higher end that’s the top 25% the top quarter of all houses on the market at the time what’s fascinating here is last year around this time we had our FTR and a revaluation and it dropped our tax rate from 1905 to 1639 while at the same time Portsmouth went up a bit from 1542 to 1597 and as you can see Portsmouth when they were settling on there around the same time they were settling on their tax levy and rates there their high-end market which had been doing well pretty well drop down to about the breaks between sellers and buyers markets whereas Tiverton whose high-end market had been struggling started to move upwards and again that’s just correlation but I think it’s it’s intriguing and telling so that’s when we come to this year’s budget and with with admission that the first budgets are always always meant to be reviewed and range discussion not necessarily to be enacted on the spot if you put together the initial request by the administrator and the school department you end up with a property tax levy increase of 7.7% based on the revenue estimates at the time which would have made the tax rate 1716 which is significant increase and it would put a new uptick on on my favorite chart here so with that context I saw an opportunity for a solution and the way I went about assessing that or putting it into concrete ideas was first we have to assess our position start getting everything on a table agree to a reasonable compromise all around and then make a plan for the future so we can deal with challenges and parenthetically each other which can often be the hardest part except okay hope that might might be harder to deal

with than other people but that was a joke so where we stand right now is a pretty strong footing from a budgetary standpoint we’ve got a three million dollar statutory guarantee for gambling revenue from the Twin River Casino which also comes with additional amounts not only an increase in the property values because of the casino but sports betting detail pay where the town gets a portion of the money paid to have police and firefighters there at all times also the state gives additional money for hotels and restaurants to the locality and actually I just mentioned the this year we have a 3% increase in our proc total property valuation which incorporates things like twin river be coming in on line long Plex and just general building and growth and then we have a series of fund balances which is the table on the right the first column that’s actual or projected by the end of this year the audited fund balance was 2.8 million which was significantly above what we have to have per the Charter was 3 percent of the operating expenses of the town and schools and municipal and so that leaves usable of that amount above 3 percent 1.2 per million there also as we’ve discussed various issues around town we’ve put numbers on for example a Bay Street legal settlement to deal with the pollution up there and a toxic-waste there’s a three hundred and seventy one thousand in that account at the moment at the moment there’s three hundred eighty two thousand three hundred dollars for work restricted to work on the industrial park and probably around the end of the year we’ll have carrying forward balances on paving and drainage and capital reserves and we also just sold a lot at the industrial park and the stamp tax revenue last year we had a resolution that changed the way the stamp tax is distributed which shifted a good portion of it toward the town’s budget as opposed to a restricted open space account so that’s money that’s just probably to be collected this year and available for use in the next year if we want to use it and so that all of that in consideration brought me to but I but I’m suggesting is the reasonable compromise budget and I want to stress here that this is just suggestions this town council doesn’t have final authority over the budget that goes on the docket and certainly not over the school department’s budget so these are just how I would see the pieces all fitting together as a that compromise proposal so at the top we would see a 2% increase in the local contribution to the school department which with state aid brings there in Crete Odle increase to just under four percent we would hold our municipal operating expense increase to 1.8% one area where we have a lot of work we need to do is in capital expenses and with the administrators good work putting together a capital plan which which as I hear rumors that the town council president really likes that plan that would all of those pieces together would come up with a budget total of fifty four million eight hundred sixty five thousand two hundred thirty-four dollars you might round up or down it might be thirty five or thirty three but that would be an increase of six point three percent and would allow a tax levy given the extra revenue of a negative two percent reduction in a tax levy one footnote on that is that in last year because the casino became online during the year there was three hundred thousand dollars in prorated prorated property tax that counted on our revenue line not in our tax line so that’s getting absorbed into our levy this year but if you factor that in the two percent reduction in taxes is actually a two point six percent reduction now since I’ve been mentioned the schools and a suggestion there for them and they have initially asked for for a larger local increase I wanted to just put in context another of my repeated charts here that they they’ve used a good amount of their fund balance this year apparently but there’s still about two million dollars of fund balance in there about half is unassigned and half is committed I’m not putting that forward to suggest anybody spend that on anything I’m just suggesting that there there is a little bit of room for compromise and and taking a little bit of risk on a slightly lower number than then might have been requested and so looking forward and assuming that all that has happened and we’re all holding hands into a bright future come June in July goodbye there might be better you know come together songs and Kumbaya

that’s kind of old I would propose that will put us on a good footing to all kind of get together after that put everything on a table every concern we have every intention we’ll look at the school budgets municipal budgets we have the landfill projected at this point to be closing at the end of 2020 we’ve got there is off budget money that pops up sometimes that I don’t know that we all have a handle on we can address you know the shoreline and and I’m choking on phrase but climate change that was for the administrators and you know if anybody if anybody really wants to be concerned about it we could always plan for a zombie apocalypse I’m not especially concerned about it but some people might be and you could put that on there and of course there the the other were earth ending catastrophes pensions and OPA that other post benefit employments that we we would want to put on the table as well and once we’ve got all that we can start to see how all the pieces interact and what opportunities we have where we need to rethink things or we August reorganize things and we can put together something like this very rough draft rough draft of a plan and of course there would be more lines with a peb and personnel and all that stuff but I’m not going to go through all these numbers and you’re welcome for that but the the basic idea is everybody can we can settle on what a reasonable increase would look like over time for the let tax levy for spending and we can also keep an eye on things like the tax rate so by this ruff-ruff plan I’ve put together in the year after this budget that we’re preparing now our tax levy if everybody else around us continues at the same trajectory under tax rates that they’ve been our tax rate would actually be the median of that map that I’ve showed before which would mean we are actually the middle town and if we kept on that path and everybody else did as well by 2024 we would hit the goal I ought line at the beginning which is the average tax rate of the area and that would be a good place I think to settle in and really at that point we could start to address some some of our longer term problems and that was that that’s the extent of my presentation so to get the conversation started I wanted to i had attached a budget plan with my presentation and i would like to move that as the starting point for our town council budget I’m sorry what are you doing I’m just I’m I just wanted to move the budget that I proposed in the back up for this meeting on a starting point for our budget discussion mr. president but there will be discussion because I want to go through the line item I didn’t see it from the side but was there a question there will be discussions on the somebody from the audience yeah no I think I want to go line item by line them if that’s okay page by page the whole budget because I have some concerns but hopefully they’ll be answered I don’t really have much on page one but I’m but I think I’m gonna have to join all this together the council contingency the Town Administrator asked for 185 in 1819 there was a hundred thousand and we use that and I know there’s been a lot of different opinions about this but when we go into negotiations we put what we perceive as raises and whenever we need to increase with the negotiations in that budget now it’s down to 25,000 and I do have a lot of concerns about that because we do have two contracts that we’re going to start negotiating and that will be expiring in two in June of 2019 so I don’t know where if we decided to give raises for those unions where that would come from that’s that’s my first concern and just do you mind if we jump in on that or accepted so cuz I

just for just for everyone falling off work we’re on is page two right 10:20 Town Council and continue to see fun 6890 yeah but what we did and this was with cooperation with the budget committee they didn’t like the idea of future needs this was way back so we we had a contingency fund plus a future needs so the future needs were basically what the raises were so it was very obvious what that was so we incorporated into calling it the contingency fund and that’s where as we all know as the year goes on we do take from the this contingency fund where different items are at some point of the year at 0% and we take from that but we also use that during negotiations so on a negotiation year we don’t even have to worry about that or incorporate that there but we are going into the Teamsters and asked me and that’s what concerns me we only have 25 thousand in there I don’t ever remember it being that low maybe when it was just a contingency fund and we had a future needs but I’m just concerned when we do go into negotiations and if we do negotiate raises for next year where will that come from and if we go into next year usually it’s retroactive so we need some kind of a fund to take that from so I’m not criticizing I’m just asking if there’s a plan if that does happen because 25,000 isn’t going to cut it the police I think was like 95,000 was was what’s the cost of what we just negotiated so I’m just asking if anyone we had a hundred thousand dollars in the contingency fund last year in part if we were able to settle police and fire that we would be able to to do that because we had cash available to work with and in addition you know things come up during the year things break stuff goes wrong you know something that we budgeted you know that the cost spikes the cost of oil spikes up whatever it is I mean $25,000 forgetting the contract thing is not a lot to deal with if there’s an emergency now just this year the contingency fund I’m sure is going to have to be used for the building affected officials salary which we’ve been scraping to get but I that would be a place where we have money when that happens my recollection a lot a huge part of what was asked for was when we were starting even with the police and fire and concerned there might be arbitration which now is not an issue so yeah but we’re going we don’t know if that’s an issue yet we still have the fire and we have an appetite but we are going into two more contracts yep so we don’t know where the future is going to hold in those two two contracts and I have to tell you I’ve been doing this a long time that $25,000 isn’t gonna cut it I don’t think unless we have a plan someone and I might just add let’s see how this goes I think we identify all I know and we open floor it and see if this can work out I I I share the concern about I mean I think from the the contracts and I’m sure Justin has it some comments on this that we have two there and one has been approved I think and we’re looking you know very optimistic on another with two more but on the we talked I have one of the prior workshops about this possibility of a swing fund and I know that it can sometimes look a little controversial but in a in a in a perfect world it seems to me you wouldn’t over budget any of the line items but you’d have one swing fund kind of like wait you know well that’s what the contingency fund right and so so I share a concern that 25 is a little a little light if that is the swing fund I mean the labor contracts we could simply take the view that there will not be any labor spending in the current year yeah but keep in mind even the fire contact even if we do settle out we’re gonna go retroactively a year so thank God we have right but that’s but right but what I’m saying is that will come from the contingency fund this year so if suppose next year we don’t settle with the other unions till mid year and we have to go retroactively where are we gonna get that money from it’s it’s not going to be budgeted so

that’s what worries me I don’t know where we’ll take it from I mean we could always transfer something but I don’t want to jeopardize other accounts so that that’s just you know but that I don’t I don’t know how much I don’t wanna go too far but I did originally develop this with the police and fire contracts included as well as I could Manso so there’s some but I took that out because it’s not all settled so I don’t want to you know speak out of turn on that kind of thing so that was considered when I went to the idea of 25,000 here I what I would suggest is we could always come back to this and as we go if there other lines that want to be reduced or transferred that might be a place we could park some money I also want to note I don’t know how close to look at the materials that we just got but we just we just received some new revenue estimates that it looks like on the whole they’re they’re up I went up at the stamp that went out no it went up I’m sorry I did think an hour and a half but there are their various their various lines on here that in addition to the building official that might have been they might have been updated between when I last got received something and when I said so what I just moved was the revenue sheet that came with my proposal and there are seven or eight lines that look like on the whole where we’re up so there there may be an opportunity at the end to put some of that and contingency fund without without changing the bottom line numbers now while we’re on that if you don’t mind MUP I’ll just ask my questions well yeah I’m the police see if anybody has burg yeah okay yes no it’s all right I have it already go ahead so I’m at Town Council so the board of campuses I do have some questions I’m still impatient okay well where’s everybody he okay with page one I know a lot of that is probably classified I mean I don’t think the bonds are under much debate but no and then the big takeaway is that what you’ve seen before in non-recurring major expenditures are now on a subsidiary capital budget so there’s that’s a separate schedule so that’s the big four those they’re studying the docket okay so back to my Justin just to clarify we were talking to capital I did go back to last year and restate the relevant line items like painting as capital so those so it’s easier to compare then it shows that fact in life right those are on the capital plan and also it totals at the bottom at the end of the page and a grand totals the 403 500 is separate not in the operating expense so I haven’t counted or anything but just so people are aware that that wasn’t how I was accounted last year I just moved it all right there and I’m sorry remind me the the major time finance payments the lease payments are those resident now in the new capital budget are those our favorite those are treated like that service essentially even though they’re paying for right there they’re operating essentially this year okay all right so back to page two all right bought a canvases ten thirty bought a canvases I’m looking at the election restricted account sixty-three 29 and this would be I don’t know if Nancy has concerns about this it was zeroed out um so I’m just worried because what does the referendum kasnia’s about we spend the 11,500 that we budget right but I will say on this one last year the council voted to add 15,000 to that alright nevermind Justin just reminded me that’s separate yes erm that Allah but the general we do have a presidential election coming up and I’m just saying last year the Budget Committee and the council voted to add $15,000 in case we had a special election at the time there was discussion that would could be a special election what would it cost and they added it so that’s why currently we have a balance close to $50,000 it’s 51 809 as of January 1st however I would not give it a zero balance I would at least put 10,000 in there because what’s going to happen we got on this plan in this practice so that we avoid the peaks and valleys I will use that money on the presidential between the presidential election if we don’t keep some consistent amount going in there you’re going to find that you’re budgeting full election expense and those election

expenses continually grow with what the state requires for you to do and what the manpower it takes to do it so it wouldn’t be my recommendation to zero it I would at least save for ten thousand in there I wouldn’t I mean as Denise just said there’s 51 thousand dollars in there and I went back to the audits back to 2007 which there was no election line before that for some reason in our audit but we’ve never ever spent more than I think was thirty eight thousand dollars in an O in an election year and next year’s not an election year so if we if we did the budget after this one we can put more money into it but I’m I think we’re over budgeted by more than a year’s worth of expenses in this restricted account that’s that was my thinking it will but I’m gonna tell you I’m gonna run an election whether I’ve got the money in there or not so right now that could see when I’m asking you is right now this 51 809 at the January there are continual expenses so do you think that zero and yet to have to budget 40,000 some year because I’ve got an election the idea in the plan of the council and the budget committee was 25,000 one year 15,000 20 I don’t think the 25,000 is going to be necessary but I still put ten thousand Justin you’re looking back at it at the bat what’s it been in the account was there always how much sort of was there always as a balance oh I think the restricting plan is actually a pretty pretty recent or at least that we’ve actually put money into it but if you go back so 38,000 is the biggest election year expense the non-election year is what this budget is it’s not an election I’ve been never more than 20 ish so my thinking here is even if we spend that 20 next year we’ll still have 531 at ending balance for the next year and we put in our 15 20 25 whatever we think we will need for the election year and we’re on track I just think the the 15 25 has been has accumulated more than is needed in the account so I think we can take a break elections have never been like they are now and they’re more costly and there’s more to do on it and it requires one man power I’m just saying I don’t care cuz the next year old you just have to make a budget I’ll just ask him okay okay so any other questions or comments on page 2 yes no this is ongoing and this comes to my contingency problem electricity in almost every facility is spent at this point in January 73% so it doesn’t worry me too much but we’re only 7 months into this budget or 6 months into this budget and that’s what we use contingency for if the electric bills went bit higher we we pull from the constituency so that’s just like we had a problem with the electricity last year too and we pulled from contingency and I was looking at all the electric accounts and they were all up over 70% as of January so that just worried me that’s it yeah I was looking at the water and supplies and I noted that with the audit the original was $700 $400 was transferred out and 300 dollars was spent and all of a sudden it’s $800 I just think it should go down to $700 originally the water and supplies are already in the red Donna as of January it’s at some point well I know but I’ve just that might be what Yann was looking at what we’ve already spent 101 percent of that account so apparently our water supply water and supplies are going up yeah I did see that but then I noticed that we’ve it’s it’s in the red already the water department is behind a dead still we have nothing in that account for the rest of the yeah I see thank you yeah I saw that too but that I saw the open zero when he’s over $700 for that yeah I already been um I guess so cuz they’re already we’re not even done the

snows gonna melt it’s already eight hundred eight hundred dollars okay so there might be a little light yeah but just keep in mind that’s why we always had some kind of contingency to put a hundred here and go into – or it’s just proven my contingency thing yeah well I’m only kidding Rob I really have okay okay okay I have some stuff on this page just better open it up brothers page three I’m looking at UM labor seventy one ninety legal services ten fifty so yon it asks for seventy five thousand and I understand we spend a lot because of the fire and police this year but as of January we had already spent seventy percent of that labor and we’re keeping it sixty I don’t know if I should be concerned because I don’t know how the other two negotiations have gone and keep in mind we still haven’t settled fire so if we do go into arbitration hopefully fingers crossed in length class we won’t we won’t we only have like thirty percent left in that account and I yeah and I don’t know if that’s why you brought it up fifteen thousand cuz you requested seventy-five right that was based on the observation that our expenses on labor council seem to be increasing fairly significantly now that more like is more likely than not associated with the contract negotiations because he’s spending an awful lot of time but we are it’s quite possible that we will still have negotiations going on in next year so I’m not sure I think on these legal services things to I sort of want to play it safe but if you want to take risk and you can do 60 or you you know I I thought you 75 was conservative so if we went into arbitration mm-hm it’s looking like because I’ve been involved in a petition before and that gets and that’s also true that at the time we first the first draft of the budget it actually was still quite likely that we were going into arbitration I mean we’ve got after me in the Teamsters next year so if we were if we were in the middle of you know all the contracts were settled and we didn’t have anything coming up then I would feel more comfortable you know with a lesser budget but we’ve still got one contract that’s not settled and we have two that are about to start I don’t see cutting that line item I mean having good Labor Council is important I just I I had I thought I’d heard and I think I’m correct that the 75 was in part in anticipation of of continuing and having three or maybe even four negotiations still ongoing next year and that looks increasingly unlikely that we’ll have more than just the two so that that was my thinking and going back to this older la mine before that increase so I do have been seeing firsthand the value of good Labor Council I know in Tim it’s invaluable so you know I the other two the two negotiations were doing now cannot go into well they can go into non-binding competition but there’s not a binding opposition so it’s less likely they’re gonna do that but I am I don’t we’ll just think about that but I just wanted to bring that up I don’t know how the president wants to handle this but my my expectation of the process and moving to the entire budget was that as people want to move to amend line items that would be certainly in order in my opinion as we go and we can adjust my document as that happens so it sounds like a weight to be my preference and I’ve just one person is everybody we give one pass through so we kind of know and their solution might avail itself or maybe not and then we’ll come back and is that okay I was just been studying my Robert’s Rules okay you don’t have a parliamentarian here for those that are keenly observing the rates of our legal council the Labour Council Justin did you still assume the current rate is two hundred and forty dollars an hour is that the same assumption would hold I didn’t change the only change I had anticipated the nation going up against okay so many you know negotiations okay and while we’re on legal services I I

you know just one person but I’d like to see the council consider a reduction the town a minister a man disagree with the town solicitor line-item not the labor council on item I just feel that a hundred thousand dollars is is a little heavy and for those that are crunching numbers the way I come at it is if you had two meetings a month and you staff that meeting for four hours at a hundred and seventy five dollars an hour which i think is probably a fair market rate maybe and if you did you know for those of us that think about preparing for board meetings or studying for class you know that kind of rule that you should do two hours for a prep for every hour of the meeting you know maybe that holds maybe it doesn’t so that would be eight hours of prep for a meeting that be $4,200 per meeting at two a month if you add in a couple extra meetings just because we have some special meetings that would be sixty three thousand dollars so we’re not even close to a hundred thousand dollars on that again this isn’t litigation this is just basically meeting attendance and a retainer and some fairly you know based on what I’ve seen in the last ten years are pretty light special project work but if you assume that once a quarter there was special projects of say 20 hours a project that’s a lot of time at 175 dollars an hour that be $14,000 that gets you to 77 thousand dollars and if my numbers are wrong and you add a 10% cushion that’s eighty eighty five thousand dollars so at some point if we come back for line-item voting I’m very tempted just to move that down to eighty five thousand dollars we are gonna go to RFP starting July first and I’m pretty confident they will be able to get and again this is just for general solicitation right this is not for land use for labor for bond counsel for the sewer district or labor so that’s just my input on Rob is it all right if I comment on that um I was I that’s everyone else I’ve been town council president for a few years and as my experience it’s a town solicitor is available daily with with problems that I do know that the Town Administrator deals with it constantly because people come into that office with with legal problems that he needs to talk to the solicitor about some of the projects like we like doing an ordinance for us or a resolution for us that takes a lot of time there’s been a lot of those but but daily I believe the town solicitor is called and bite Nancy because Nancy needs advice constantly with what goes on in the clerk’s office well it’s true there’s a lot of problems that go on in the clerk’s office and I it’s not just meetings it’s it’s continuously being on call even 24 hours I know that we’ve had to call them on weekends when something has come up or in the middle of the night so it’s not I think a hundred thousand is reasonable for the amount of time we we used this man but that’s just my opinion I don’t know if near to your yard want to add to this but my experience he’s every penny we pay for him because if not there’d be more lawsuits his advice is constant I if I may I would agree I think that’s one of the things that you know you get what you pay for and if you want a really good experience municipal solicitor who’s not going to make mistakes and not going to get you in litigation then you know you need you need to pay for that experience and you need to pay for that quality of work there aren’t that many of them in Rhode Island that do a lot of this that are really good we are particularly a needy town because we’re not so homogeneous here and and you know the solicitor runs into a lot of interesting things but I think that that’s you know one of those things where you can be penny wise and pound foolish and it’s if you want a well-run town and you want to avoid liability and you want to avoid a lot of litigation you need somebody really good in that office I’m sort of also aware of the fact that I think this is one of the areas that we’ve talked about we want to sort of reevaluate how we use the solicitor and maybe past practice isn’t going to be the current practice so I don’t know how that plays in town I don’t understa Gris with anything that in fact I’d be the first degree that you get what you pay for and I’m kind of

glad to hear that points of knowledge I’m just proposing what I think is a hundred thousand dollars becomes one of the highest and line items in the budget and I’m suggesting we cut the total legal services spent from 285 down to 270 which is a very very modest decrease so I don’t think it’ll hurt any anything at all I mean a hundred thousand dollars I mean you start to get to that point where you could hire a full-time and believe me this is not my suggestion but if you think about cities and other towns that have have in-house counsel I mean we’re kind of getting I mean it’s just a big number and I think some points some good points are raised on the labor council need and so anyway that’s just my my my two cents but I appreciate the feedback I just want if I’m not mistaken this is based on the rate of the you know Pryor town solicitor as well and I will say that both then and now I do find myself needing legal advice way more than I would ever want to and it is on a daily basis and it is because I feel that if I don’t get that advice you know we might be taking risks that we shouldn’t be take I don’t want to over dramatize it but it’s just and it’s usually very routine stuff but not stuff that I can make a decision on by myself and I am not the only one town clerk has a regular need for that the building office very very frequently has to talk to the town solicitor as well and I do think that there was you know some talk and I think justifiably so to look at can we manage we collectively use a town solicitors time I think it’s worth looking into it’s worth trying to manage it but I think right now you you definitely need this kind of money unfortunately perhaps done how’s it handled if you call him are you billed by 15 minutes the hour no its salary really it’s its salary it’s just included in it right so you’ve never had a sense that with all the times you’ve been calling him that we do not so you get a sense of how much time is spent where which we actually should be able to use to see well you know do we really need to eat up this much of this time for that particular type of issue and but when it comes to the solicitors part of the legal services budget it is affect you know it’s its cap so you go off to the captain then I think it has been routinely exceeded if I’m not mistaken I’m not no Warren it was no this is what we pay him to manage if we no no no I mean in terms of what would happen if he were paid by the hour oh forget it I would be in trouble some months we really wouldn’t but it’s not just our problems it’s in the community coming in here with with very different issues and it’s it’s everybody it’s it’s there’s a lot of issues in Tilden but I’m sure it it’s like that everywhere else I mean I don’t think with that unique will know you need well a little unique but I don’t think with that unique okay well while I’m at it see if I can’t generate more controversy so this is not the forum for probably an extended discussion but I do want to suggest that you know just one person here but I would like to see at some point the consideration and maybe I can’t be done right away but a consideration of a performance incentive structure it doesn’t have to be large but it would go something along the lines real back-of-the-envelope stuff how many how many department heads yawn do we have report in you I think is it six if you just took you know seven or eight and say at an average salary and you and you had a target performance pool of about 10% you need being around a $50,000 budget line item and of course in an incentive program not everybody hits gets the incentive and not everybody gets the full amount so if you cut that in half this is back to the envelope stuff I mean you know you’d be talking about $25,000 and just throwing it out there but I think it would be something to consider that we fund that at even one quarter of the beginning of a beginning because I know it’s hard to do it all but you start and you can ramp up and ramp down but even a $6,500 pool to at least give it a shot

and then that pool would be administered by the town administrator to allocate across the department heads and then there should probably be some portion of that pool that the Town Council could use to consider so I don’t think this is very inconsistent from those of us and best practices in a private sector and I know it’s a big topic but I just wanted to make sure that I threw it out there for those that are interested in funding it with a small a small line ID actually I’d actually be supportive of that III think that I think that it’s very common in the private sector it’s done fairly regularly and I like to see a way to reward you know employees who have done a good job so I might be actually quite in favor of some way of implementing a program like that I move we adjourn and then the last thing since it’s here under the town administrator item and then I promise I’ll stop talking for a while is so this goes in that category of I don’t know that it can be done now and it certainly can’t be done tonight but I think there has been some really good work done here I’ll get teased if I stay home it’s a capital plan I give a lot of credit to Justin for putting a framework out here that we can all you know kick the tires on and I think at some point we need to have a conversation about whether there should be a repurposing or some kind of way to find a backup or a deputy town administrator or somebody that can step into that role that’s a big conversation it probably is a fairer conversation to be had about the clerk’s desk as well and I don’t know if there might be a current department head that could be maybe split time or something like that I don’t have any specific requests for that now but I just don’t want you to feel blindsided if that comes up in later conversations but in my estimation there is a need there and it’s something as I think we you know look at the spreadsheet the presentation that you just saw I think it needs to be given some thought at least at some time I what I really like about where where where we’re going where I see Justin bleeding on this presentation is we can’t solve every problem today or this cycle but we can get them all on the table try to strike a reasonable compromise and then really really continue to roll up our sleeves going into say next year and so I think that we need to have a tough conversation about that and that’s the only other comment I had on page three this one I’m going to have Yan take the lead on and I think you I don’t know if he’s prepared but he’ll do it League of cities and towns always seems to be a hot subject every single year and the town administrator whoever he may be always fights for it Justin did zero went out and I was wondering what your thoughts were on this I you may have noticed that I take the opportunity frequently to mention how helpful I think the League of cities and towns is to municipalities and certainly to people like myself I believe that that organization there’s an awful lot of very important research provides white papers that are exceptionally well researched and organized and provide of information that it would take us forever to you know collect and and deal with issues from you know say the the motor vehicle taxon and how that was handled and being able to respond to that you know on behalf of municipalities with a lot of the the legwork actually being done by staff at the league of cities and towns and it does that on many many subjects where I think it would be very difficult for us to be as prepared as we should be to respond to or deal with issues that come up in the legislature in particular but not only in the legislature there’s one other thing because we’re a member of the League of cities and towns we also participate in that aggregated energy purchase program which is saving us money has saved us money in that the league on behalf of several or a lot of municipalities negotiated a contract

with Direct Energy and that you know led to a significant reduction compared to if we got everything from from National Grid it just renegotiated that contract that has another entity and it believes it’s going to have additional savings available through that program so I can’t help but wonder you know why we would want to give up opportunities like that where we have a chance to be part of a pool and and thereby realize some some benefits that we can certainly use so I I would strongly recommend against zeroing that out and by the way the number is not only for the league of cities and towns it’s also the chamber of commerce and again I fully understand that there may be different perspectives on how important these organizations are or what they do for us but I do believe there is a value for the town to be participating in an organization like a Regional Chamber of Commerce and also in particular some of the programs that it is advancing relating to economic development and if anything I wish we had more time to participate a little bit more actively in that program which is a larger discussion about how actively we pursue economic development in this town but I think the chamber is another example of we could definitely benefit from it but you need to put something into it to get that benefit how much do each cost the league currently is over six thousand I believe and the chamber I believe is still slightly under twenty five hundred or something like that I’d like to throw in a a recommendation for the league as well in addition to the savings that there are many times where the smaller communities or the outlying communities I guess you know that the communities put it this way that aren’t Providence East Providence Pawtucket Central Falls and more ouack are going to end up with a you know some sort of terrible unfunded liability per something that’s happening at the General Assembly and in the absence of the league we be in a real pickle because they’re really the ones that lead the charge do the lobbying organize the towns of actually myself participated a number of times in the league’s lobbying efforts against you know certain legislation that’s floating up around there and you know for communities like Tiverton having our voices combined with other communities who have the same concern but also having the league you know really sort of being out front on the battle for us is incredibly useful and it makes a difference when the when the league is fighting with us we get a lot more attention and the you know in some cases where able to stop the legislature from you know yet again another thing that turns out to be a favor for a small number of communities but would severely penalized communities like Tiverton I wanted to fm8 at to two other examples one is the interaction we have had over the central landfill and the costs to cities and towns which clearly have gone up quite a bit and not that long ago resource recovery developed a new solid waste management plan and I will say that I think that Corporation has a very difficult task funding what needs to be done at that central landfill but at the same time thus always management plan it developed really was incredibly burdensome for municipalities and the league played a very significant role in spotting that and advocating zealously on behalf of municipalities to the point that I thought they were going overboard a little bit because I happen to be an environmentalist and I thought that some of it needed to be done and we needed to change the way we think about the cost of throwing our stuff away but it was so focused on the fiscal impact of municipalities that I was really impressed by because I don’t think that you’re hardly any of our communities can do that by itself and they were very successful I think and you know making the argument and working with legislators as well as the resource recovery people to moderate the impact of that there was another one but it

just did escape me thank you yes okay any other comments on page three and I I have kids just before we get off the liga spurred is he found a seat I’m not sold on most of that may be on the food purchasing but the rest of it I mean we have legislators to lobby for us league’s gonna be lobbying in the name of municipalities anyway whether or not and as Yun just indicated they take a position based on presumably the interests of their members in general which might differ from any given community or it might differ from the voters and taxpayers as a separate from the from the municipalities themselves I think it’s another in my view it’s another one of these groups that Rhode Island likes to generate where you know you can get some people who help to make decisions and presume to speak for for constituencies and and that’s how backroom deals get made and that’s my opinion of the I do I’m just curious the town administrator salary not that there are any guarantees here but there doesn’t seem to be any room for a salary increase in this line-item Town Administrator department manager salary 2020 it stays stable I just want to point out that I’m not in the habit of asking was not in my it may be something we want to consider for that contingency fund or we could put the two what we normally do is put yeah yeah yeah one minute I had no idea what you were saying well and normally normally normally it assuming that our department heads in our town administrator or doing a good job normally we budget for an increase that if it’s merited we can give I’m just saying there’s nothing that is here so every other department head does have it I think it’s up the police stick the police chief doesn’t have I think the police chief’s is also yeah or two in this budget but but the others have a rate it increase just to keep in mind guys and I mean I if we’re gonna do budgeting if that’s how we’re gonna budget it I think we should budget it for this line item if we don’t use it we don’t use it but it should be budgeted and then my next question is about in land use the the building official salary so you know one of the things that and this is I’m gonna talk about the building official but it’s it’s a little bit more than the building official to you know a few minutes ago there was a slide that held up Portsmouth is you know is as it come you know a community that has well you know a lower tax rate and all that other kind of stuff and it seems to be a place that people like to compare us to and there are a lot of various comparisons but you know one of the things that I’ve noticed in the past three years of being on the council is how incredibly hard it is to hire good people to get good people to come here and if you want a well-run town then you need qualified competent hard-working people who are here and not that we don’t have some we do where we we have some we’re very lucky in some ways but when we went looking for town administrators or planners or building officials or you pick what we’ve gone out to in the last three years we have not been overwhelmed with great applications by any stretch of the imagination in some cases we are lucky there might be one good person but you know that was sort of that so just looking you know our building official salary is set at projected to be $70,000 it’s not enough it isn’t and in Portsmouth if we’re gonna compare you know their building official makes $80,000 a year so you know one question I have we’ve been trying to hire a building official now for how long I don’t know that this salary is going to get us a building official I just I don’t think it’s gonna happen I don’t think we can keep paying so far below

the rest of the market and think we’re gonna get people to apply and it’s a hard job here because we’re not we’re not at build-out we’re not at a point as a community where oh there’s not a whole lot going on I got to go inspect a few houses this week or somebody’s putting on an addition I mean we’ve got a lot going on here so it’s it’s a busy job and it’s gonna take somebody with to do it well with some real mode vation and and somebody who’s willing to work hard and that’s a pretty low salary on a relative basis compared to other communities to have the same work level have we had any applications no no how long have we not had one we haven’t had one in Oh God many months months yeah and and we’ve advertised at least twice or three times right and so in the meantime we have this interim arrangement which is not so easy anymore which is not working for our budget it’s not really working for our budget ultimately and it’s not an ideal way to serve the public actually so it would be great if we could hire a true you know building official that’s dedicated to this town and I didn’t quite know what to do when I put the first request together but since then I’ve been told repeatedly by several people that there is no way you know you’re gonna get candidates for this salary and part of that is the market it’s just that and in in the Rhode Island the the lack of candidates for this particular position we’re competing with a lot of other towns it’s just something that I do think is a concern will we be able to get candidates and and if not how much longer are we you know doing this interim arrangement I actually literally when you were talking about my salary I say you’re better off taking that money and giving it to the building okay so because at least you pull it up a little bit sorry would need to be pulled up I have to agree with it I’m just a little concerned that everything is well we want that money and at some point we have to consider how the taxpayers are gonna pay for all that and and and and how are we going to exchange what we want with maybe we have to do without on some things and I don’t know it just goes up and up and up you have to consider the financial health of the community as a whole and the impact of the town’s spending on the taxpayer and and I don’t know where that comes in but all I hear is well I want that money and that’s nice but it’s coming out of people’s pockets and if you take their money they can’t live in their own house but they can’t buy food or whatever’s going on because they’re not getting the increase that’s going on here and I understand you know you need a building official but you’re just talking about the salary you’re not talking about the benefits the benefits in the salary if you you increase it to $80,000 you’re talking about a hundred and forty thousand dollars for the building official you we never seem to talk for more Matt Mary the to the benefits and the cost of the salary now I know we need these things but I’m on a hole what are what’s more important than the other because at some point it’s just too much for the taxpayer to bear so there has to be there has to be some really hard thinking about all the spending that’s going on here if you feel like legals really you know you’ll want to spend all that and you want the building inspector and you want this that’s all I’ve heard so far I can’t do without this and I can’t do without that at some point someone’s gonna do without something it’s gonna be someone in their own home and maybe they don’t have cable now or maybe they can’t afford their mortgage um maybe the senior citizen has to leave town I I’m just trying to find the middle ground here because that’s all I hear is well I don’t want to do without this and I don’t want to do without that and I want to be with this league and I want to be I hear it all but at some point where is it too expensive for people to even stay in their own home Rob I just want to make something clear I’m not saying I want any of this I’m saying the town needs this and and if

you look at what I want to increase it to it’s not like I’m not talking a lot of money but you have to keep in mind that without a building inspector we’re going to have problems we’re going to have ordinance break broke and we’re going to have lawsuits again but the thing is we have spent year to date on a building inspector $84,000 and this is as of January so we are hiring this agency to do this and and we are not hiring a permanent building inspector which john is saying that this agency it’s just a temporary fix it the point we did it but keep in mind guys this is as of January 31st we’ve spent eighty four thousand dollars so what I’m trying to say is by the time June comes it’s going to be well over a hundred thousand and so what I’m so what we are saying so why don’t we get a reasonable salary instead of spending this kind of money we’re spending because we’re pulling from all kind of accounts to get that that was zero a couple of months ago I hear what you’re saying but we need every town needed I know okay if that’s you know what we need to spend the money on and we need to compromise on where can we do the cuts because all I hear is well not all do we need well Justin Justin did do some cuts that I do agree with there are cuts in this budget I had that that I do agree with and he convinced me one was the right one before I did this is just my question like on the election account when he gave me his his logic and Nancy gave me what it cause I agree with that so that’s a cut there that’s a $25,000 cut there which which which Justin made right Justin has done some right Justin there are cuts in this budget I’m not taking a position either way on building a visual salad but but when you say we’ve spent eighty four thousand the contractor doesn’t get any benefits so there is it is a closer equation and it would seem just salary right but I bet you were we’re getting to the point that for that 20 how that equates to the salary plus the benefits I think the treasure is here so what would you and I’m asking very a very quick question what do you think the benefits for building inspector yeah she probably knows this off the top of her head that’s funny okay so feet so it’s 69 plus 26 so it’s 96 we’re gonna go over that we it’s January and we’ve already gone over we’re already at 85 yes so I just think a town no I don’t think a town has to have a building’s official guys so I think we need to do it the most cost-efficient and it’s not something that I want but the current think we’re doing now is not a solution I am I am just trying to point out that we’ve so far it’s and I have I have don’t have a problem with the building official but as we go along it’s like nobody wants to cut anything but where are we going with this budget is cut this budget is cut but what I’m I’m just pointing this out I haven’t made a motion on any of these yet no probably well but but I’m just pointing out where what where I think that we’re gonna run into problems and that’s all and if you all don’t agree that’s absolutely fine I need two or three more people to agree with me though no I know I I’d like us all to agreeing come to her I really do but um I have a friend that couldn’t stay he wasn’t feeling well but he had a few thoughts and I just if you don’t mind this thought a curry it was a Sheree’s husband and some of his concerns I just want to say that at a minimal inflation rate of 1.6% over the last dozen years the yankem has barely kept pace with household basic spending needs and with however these things like medical costs insurance costs of outpaced inflation and have had an impact those in need of the most those on fixed incomes 25 to 30 percent of the tivan and residents are retirement age these people are on fixed incomes who

Medicare costs have taken any and all income increases have not been able to keep pace with inflation in addition many of the Italy’s only home which are paid off is simply increase in value but who carry a significant chunk of of our towns revenue burden so I’m just asking everyone to be cognizant of people that aren’t making a lot of money and then because the taxes keep going up finding they’re in real trouble that’s all I just like to respond a little to to Donna’s comments and and I am not at all unsympathetic and I do realize that we have a larger elderly population and I actually got fairly educated on it when I was on the community comprehensive plan committee because I had to update all the housing statistics and I was really rather stupefied to find out how many elderly residents we have in our own town who owned their own homes and don’t have mortgages but are still paying a huge percentage of their available income towards housing costs so and that includes things like property taxes I’m not unsympathetic to that but you know there is one thing that I think that people need to understand here and and and I did this not too long ago it’s just a bit of an experiment which is this idea that the town of Tiverton just blindly spends exorbitant amounts of money right that it’s just spending and it’s just spending and we can just cut our way out of out of whatever our problems are so I decided to go and look at you know just the four actually the East Bay communities and of all of them we spend less per capita than anybody else so on a per capita basis for example we spend about thirty two hundred dollars a year per capita per person into Vernon including the schools Portsmouth spends thirty six hundred dollars a year Middletown spends forty five hundred dollars a year per person and even Little Compton spends more than we do they spend four thousand dollars a year per person so we’re not on a on a per person basis interpreting spending a lot of money we spend less than Bristol we spend less than Warren we’re not spending a lot of money so yes it’s money but but it’s not like we’re you know these the this big freewheeling spending organization here so I think that spending is part of the equation and I’m not promoting the idea that we just spend unlimited amounts of money but it’s only in my opinion part of the fiscal equation it’s one part but but it can’t be the only thing and we’re not gonna be able to cut our way into a solution all the time there have to be other things and in some cases those things are gonna win vault have to involve having the right people in place to do the things that we want to do part of the reason those other communities can do that is that their property value you Asians are so much larger than then are sorry that’s that’s a big reason why they can have spent more per person and have a lower tax rate because their property valuations are so high well you know we talk about things like our waterfront or improving our waterfront or being able to generate more income from the waterfront or you know preserving what we have that’s valuable to help maintain property values well you know to do that we’ve got to have good people in the land use Department you know who are motivated and can work hard and feel like they’re being compensated fairly if if we don’t all we’re doing is trying to just cut our way out of this and I don’t think that that’s gonna work well I thought one of the things you said Trisha was that they have a bigger tax rate or higher evaluations or more people there to try to catch up with something you can’t afford doesn’t make it affordable to the people of tiffin and trying to be either Middletown or Portsmouth I know it makes it a little tough but if that’s the case that we want to be in parity with other towns

and attract like a building inspector and they’ll we’ll have one here almost the same price you have to look through the budget and go well where are we going to what is it that we absolutely need and what is it that is just something that you know we think we need or you know it could be maybe put on offer I mean we just need to look through the whole thing but so far and I’m not against the argument that you have and I’m certainly not against having good people here but so far it’s been well I want all these expenses if these couple of pages are where we have the expenses and we totally really need them then where can we have the savings and the other pages so that it makes it affordable that’s all I’m asking savings not to contribute oh really too much I do want to point out the comparing levies across towns I I find per income is probably more helpful than per per capita because the wealth of a town Portsmouth Little Compton generates more revenue just because people have more money and their values are higher that aside I do want to point out in case the point has been lost here especially because I’ve there are people who aren’t happy with me about this the budget I proposed is actually at one point eight percent increase in operating and over a four hundred percent increase in capital expenditures so we can talk about my cuts but we’re talking about begging I just want to make sure that doesn’t get lost in the equation of our conversation I don’t mean to be argumentative but to your point just and if you think that you’re better off comparing you know with the tax levy then the same argument applies to the tax rate right it’s the point of the tax rate where that’s relevant is when people are looking for homes and where they want to live that’s where the tax rate is dull and that’s the limited capacity in which I use it my presentation I just let me I’m gonna give Trisha the last word and then let’s try to charge the line items come back I promise well anyways my point was I think that I think that we may need to reconsider the building officials salary and I actually think that you know there are probably a couple of other department head salaries that might be a little light to tell you the truth and you know potentially in the contingency fund or someplace we might need to think about or maybe we just have to you know transfer things that this isn’t you know open position that we have right now but we may need to up our game a little bit to attract the good qualified candidates and the only other the only other question that I have about this and I’ll wait a little bit till we get to the capital improvement which is on the IT consulting services several of the other departments have some funding in here for software or IT services so I’m a little confused that I just want to make sure we’re not over funding or double funding IT services because it they’re they’re kind of everyplace confuse and it’s a little and and it might all be legitimate so that’s that you know that’s kind of one thing which if young wants to answer and then I have one more question about this page I’d love to answer that and I hope it is legitimate what we have done is trying to consolidate in this account under the town administrator most if not all of the IT services that have to do with equipment and software that we all use for general government operations in addition to that we have some departments who have very specific software that they need for their specific operations and I’m thinking of tax assessor treasurer police and fire for example so it’s it’s more almost like proprietary in the sense of only those departments have that and we thought it made more sense to actually allocate it to those still allocated to those departments for that type of IT expenditure so that’s the difference you will I think see you know less but the

other thing is a lot of it was hidden previously you couldn’t always tell where IT was being paid from so I’ve tried to make it just a little bit more transparent in that sense what you now see in departments are truly the very special software that that particular department needs or it cannot do its job essentially and what you see under the Town Administrator is the more general services that we need to do the troubleshooting to do the planning for when equipment needs to be replaced to do the recommendations for what we need and when we needed all of that and then Trish I actually went through everything um the IT services that’s on the capital came to $36,000 and then I went through each department anyway its hold up to one hundred and thirty four thousand dollars plus the thirty six thousand I went through each department I started I added added it all up and it came to one hundred and thirty four thousand dollars anyone that had computer software everyone’s got you know special software computerized payroll for the treasurer is kind of hefty but I mean she has to have that but but it has to be noted in the IT and software and then professional tech services one hundred and fifty dollars just for the tax assessor I thought we had tech services I just had questions you’ve got um Board of Canvassers a thousand planning for twelve thousand town wide Internet services three thousand web support 24 50 IT consulting was twenty five thousand professional tech services from eleven forty was three thousand software maintenance went from two thousand to forty four hundred one hundred and twenty percent increase program probate program software three hundred dollars tax assessor he’s got the GIS web hosting and the update two hundred and fifty thousand eight hundred tech services a hundred and fifty software maintenance six hundred and fifty sixty five hundred dollars treasurers computerized payroll some 19-5 software maintenance 3000 tax-collector maintenance for their software is 4700 software maintenance for fires is 6000 was put in for over the actuals 4408 software for police 20000 but the actual was 1960 49 and the t10 administrative put them for 26,000 it might be for the new program that’s that’s a 30% increase knispel court software maintenance is six thousand dollars Harbormaster new computer software one hundred and fifty thousand dollars that’s a hundred percent increased DPW IT software hardware five thousand dollars US Senior Center my Senior Center I think that’s a computer program $1200 and that’s what I did it just seemed all over the place it was like how much is this costing may I comment on that the answer is it’s costing a lot now why is that no it’s because we’re in 2019 and unfortunately or fortunately computers and computer systems and networks and software are part of our infrastructure without which we cannot do the job it actually helps us for better or worse save on personnel because if we use if we have the right equipment in the right software systems it allows us to be more productive with fewer people and believe it or not in this day and age spending on IT is actually the more cost-effective way than to only say well it’s an awful lot of money yes it’s an awful lot of money but we need to look at what it’s being used for and I do think you threw in a few things like the planning where 12,000 that not IT services that is professional engineering services to assist the Planning Board in the Zoning Board with a consulting engineer so we need to be careful what we lumped together here but I don’t deny for a minute you know that this is a significant although frankly yes it adds up but in my mind that’s

actually not a lot of money for what you need to maintain here in order to run and let me give you a couple of other examples so in the building office we’ve instituted a permitting that has an incredibly positive response from the people who need to use the building office because it allows them to apply online they don’t have to come in they don’t have to wait in line things like that a lot of things get filled in automatically that interim allows us to you know whittle down the waiting time that we have here for people in the building off is one example the Harbormaster it’s actually a very small amount but for that small amount you get a system where you know electronically can manage the mooring services which now is I hate to say it a little bit of a disaster in terms of how the paperwork is being done the records are being kept and it’s an awful lot of work for a very part-time person to do and to do right and we have crazy waiting times for people who just don’t understand why they’re not getting serviced it a little bit more efficiently and so for very little money you can build a system that does a lot of the work for you you provide better services instead of having to say we need to hire someone else as an administrative assistant or something else the part-time Harbormaster can do that job now but with the software it becomes more feasible to do it right and this thank you so and this funds the the emergency as well that we addressed okay yes so and one of the thing if ma just just after that the overall amount there is a significant amount in capital budget and I have explained it before but let me just quickly do it again that envisions that we do for the rest of town government what we have done for police and fire in terms of moving to a better platform that is less equipment expensive on-site less maintenance cost for us more capacity more reliability it’s the cloud-based system you go to Microsoft Office subscriptions and we’re all becoming a little bit more compatible than we currently are because currently every little part of town government has its own thing sometimes that was absolutely necessary when everything just went to put in police and fire and that was an emergency because their public safety agencies but we have similar problems in the rest of town government so planning to do the same kind of shift and upgrade in my mind is a necessary thing and if you do it proactively you’re probably going to save a ton of money instead of having to jump in when something breaks down and the whole computer system is no longer working etc etc so I do think it’s important to do that whether it all needs to be done in FY 2010 be discussed maybe we can phase it but what I thought is it is a large project actually if you do it piece by piece it’s not a project if you undertake it as let’s get this done so we’re actually you know working in in the 20th 21st century with the equipment and the technology that is available they becomes a capital project and he can fund it as such and because we have the opportunity to use some new revenue I thought it was the proper way to to budget it now but you could talk about you know can this be phased I mean Justin I think cut it in half which shocked me but on the other hand maybe we can do it I already asked the the IT consultant you know what what can we do first in FY 2009 maybe do the rest in FY 21 something like that so certainly open to discussion well I mean we’re skipping pages but I’ll just just that quick that was my thinking Manley was looking at especially the capital budget there even with the things I took out or there’s a lot on the towns plate in your plate and I thought given that maybe do a big part of the IT upgrade in one year see how those learn some lessons and then finish it the next year something that was a long all though I will say that and we learned a lesson with police and fire and I actually wanted to take advantage of that and not let a whole lot of time go by because we learned exactly what can go wrong and why it went long and so applying that sooner rather than later to the rest makes a lot of sense as well so one more on page three yes so that answers my question that I just wanted to make sure that this was I mean I realized that everybody’s got their own proprietary software that works with whatever Department I just want to make sure that there wasn’t a double thing and my last question for the Planning

Board for the professional Technical Services that’s the consulting engineer given that we’re going out to bid for this and given the new you know what was it amount per meeting that steer wanted 500 500 a meeting is 12,000 gonna get us and consulting engineer I’m not sure I know you can calculate it a few ways it’s more than we currently well we haven’t really budgeted this particular one I think it’s probably doable actually talked with I believe the current consulting engineer as well what their expectations were in terms of how much more you know is there has there been an increase in the amount of time that they need to spend on the jobs it could it could be very tight on the other hand it’s a lot more than we have and when I first proposed that we were largely focused on the planning board you know and then it was pointed out that the Zoning Board really needs the same kind of assistance and then I said I’m gonna leave this along because we may well need it okay all right thank you okay I promise we will accelerate age for age five I have one on the tax collector it’s a 10% raise yes she works 25 hours I looked at her benefits and she’s getting if I’m correct full benefits the talk time job I think she gets 25 43 an hour I think the town activity has been very generous to her that a part-time position is getting full benefits and Denise says no who says Denise Denise is saying no yeah I was looking at the contract okay see she doesn’t okay so it’s just strictly well she has a contract it has it all in there is there something wrong with the contract pension vacation it’s all there holidays sick time well those are benefits well are they prorated seems to be listing all of them doesn’t say prorated there any way to check that system computer right if I may because here too I think I or at least in my backup document on this particular item there is some explanation of why there is that and I think it’s an important one which is that if you look at how when you convert these salaries to hourly rates there is a significant discrepancy between the salary earned in this position compared to other department heads and I always think it’s somewhat dangerous to allow that sort of discrepancy to occur I don’t know if I need to be more blunt about that but it’s true that you know often we hire people part-time with the understanding that as long as it’s less than 20 hours a week we don’t pay benefits so that is true and there is that that’s you know we have several part-time people without benefits this is not the case here it goes back for some time it was decided at the time I believe that it was good for both the employee and for the town to have this be a part-time position but it was negotiated at a time that you know that would work if as long

as there were some benefits not the full package necessarily even so I think that and I didn’t try to come up with a way to make this hourly rate exactly the same as like the highest salary of any department to the contrary is still at the at the bottom and this is only the first step in the right direction frankly you know it this just doesn’t get to the lowest the rate of the lowest paid department director by any means so I might see the contract there’s some benefits this is another one where we’re talking about sort of compensation analysis and I think the goal right is to move towards you know there’s only so much time but I think normally when you have conversations like this and you’re talking about coincidence a charade there’s usually four four categories that you you’re talking about right if you if you’re if we’re thinking like an HR department right we’re thinking about you know what is what is the market right what is the market rate and what is cost of living increase and what is the person’s experience and performance level maybe they’re right out of college versus four years on the job and and and then what adjustments are there to their to their scope of duties and so in an in a in a in a perfect scenario when we’d asked for an increase in perhaps we should be looking at all of them because perhaps some of them are our over market right I mean maybe that’s the case and perhaps the goal should be over time to look at the whole management team and doing analysis based on those four things which takes time you need to do that but I hope you all can agree that that’s a framework that we’d like to strive towards a more traditional HR type of compensation analysis just how to be assets all right well I do have to say I mean it’s a it’s a ten percent increase and if you look at the state office municipal finance there are two other part-time tax collectors who make less than currently we pay and then every bunch that don’t have a tax collector it’s folded into another office presumably so I mean it is it is a substantial increase in a single year for an employee that’s already here and I noticed in your backup materials you say typically works 30 hours the contract says 25 on that one I mean I left it alone in my proposal but it does seem like it needs a little bit more justification to go that much I mean I’m not sure I agree with the notion of comparing department heads per se right because they all do different work and have different experiences expertise well there’s there’s quite a bit of you know diversity in terms of the exact levels of compensation it’s not as if they’re all I think only the same level what I found was a discrepancy that goes way beyond that variation among department heads and I will say not that I really wanted to but there is an issue of gender equality as well yeah that needs to be considered in my opinion okay so I’m going to move us to page six is that okay so page six is a very interesting page because it’s it sets up a new account which would begin to expressly start a reserve trust fund to begin to address the OPEC liability the proposal that you that is on the table would fund it at one hundred thousand dollars which is less than the administrator starting point but I’d like to say because we’ve put a lot of time and I think it’s a council priority that just getting it funded is is a very important I think first step to at least acknowledging that it’s there and it doesn’t slip from people’s memory here every year that’s just a comment I don’t particularly have a problem with it being at the level it is because it’s a it’s a first step and I think that’s the most important stuff my concern just I don’t know how to do it the the amount that we’re behind is so huge that I can’t imagine what amount we would have to contribute to be able to meet our obligations and so at some

point I think we’re gonna have to this I don’t know what the answer is going to be the state’s gonna have to figure something out because the Sun fine unfun unfunded liability is just so mammoth so that being on the other hand you know we did we’ve made it a point negotiations have people contribute so I don’t want to not contribute but and I guess I basically am alright with a hundred thousand I just I it’s sort of more symbolic than solving a problem as far as I’m concerned in the comments front page six well I just wanted my rationale on the OPEC was was exactly that I mean as I suggested after after this budget sessions over not today I mean in May and we can start really putting a lot of these issues on a table and answer for ourselves how much do we want to put toward okay if it’s hopeless or maybe we want to put more or less I just see 300 was a lot 300,000 was a lot to put forward before having had that conversation whereas the hundreds seem reasonable because we did in our police negotiations ask them to have an employee contribution and it seemed like a good we do recognise this as a problem so we’re gonna put you know a hundred thousand dollars in fifty four million dollars but it isn’t a lot but it is still a good chunk of my how much are we trying to make up for something well the talents portion was 117 million largely symbolic but it’s something particularly because we’ve been asking employees to consider country I don’t know I I just don’t agree with it it’s like good money after bad it’s like and I know what everybody’s saying but what’s it gonna do I mean all it’s doing is it’s it’s affecting the levy it’s it’s not touching anything really is seventeen million dollars nobody’s paid into it and now fast forward we got a deal with it and I don’t know I guess they just didn’t bother with it now we got a hundred thousand dollars that we could use on i.t or something like that and we’re putting in under fund to look like we’re doing something for seventeen million dollars all right it just doesn’t make any sense to me I might just add I don’t disagree with that but one of the key benefits of the police contract which was just approved not only did it and and I think we’re all very grateful for the the contribution of the police union as well as our negotiation team has a modest contribution from them the police staff but it also began and we you know we didn’t engage a formal actuary so I but by back-of-the-envelope numbers it should reflect a significant decrease in bending the curve of the the open climbing and I think that would potentially could have even been a seven-figure change over time and so I almost I almost see this a little bit like our tax rate in Tiverton they used to go up 8% 7% year-over-year and that curve has bent down although we’re still quite high compared to our neighbors but at least the curve is is bending closer so I don’t see the the Oh peppers as certainly something we can resolve today but someone’s got to start and I think there’s been good work done there if I may just add one other thing to this which i think is important this is not the town owns own Oh pepper fund as if this fund is going to solve the problem for the town its participating in the trust fund that the inter local risk management Trust administers and by doing that you participate again in a much larger pool that is being invested and actually earns money which we cannot do at close to the same rate if we do things on our own so even the symbolic gesture has some benefit in that regard yes we are so no they’re not imposing a minimum we’re just putting money into the pool is that how it works around like a state where they dictate your your state pension they try to dictate everything you know you know that you don’t trust them anyway okay so good points I have a thing on page stick so so so page six on the fire department and again hopefully we don’t end up in arbitration but either way there’s nothing in here for second year whatever

the second year of the contract ends up with if we end up with a contract and not in binding arbitration I mean there’s no there’s none of the saddlery account no so we can’t really talk about it in detail right now but that may be okay well May is a May is a good thing but I think that there again I’m not saying that that we shouldn’t have the money in the contingency account because it was put there for that that reason right that’s still debate of whether we still need it in FY 20th a contingency account right because because this would have to cover whatever year to is of the contract if there is if the contract provides for not increase if there’s a contract and if there’s an increase it’s it’s gonna have to cover year two so there’s nothing here it’s a little bit yeah right but it’s a little worrisome not to have anything just know it was one of the reasons why there is a higher amount requested in my requests in the contingency in Brown right but again that we had that debate earlier so okay okay yep okay same thing though yeah page seven we do know second years 3% yeah well at least when I was finalizing this Friday it still hadn’t I don’t think I did Union had finished whatever they have to do or it wasn’t completely completely done I think where we are as was ratified by the Union membership was ratified by the town council so the attorneys for both sides can now finalize the contract which then and that comes back for you know the final approval and signature and then there’s the question is what at what point do you put that in the budget you know it’s either now or better be yes well yeah but you know it also works both ways because there is money in the current year fiscal right this year it needs to go I mean we have to put this in the budget so I’m just at some point that has to be adjusted quite a bit do you think this is interesting we should probably the police sounds like that is but I’m not persuaded that I mean I think I think there’s a position to be said that this idea that we will always budget for retroactive raises strikes me is so I mean I think there needs to be an incentive that you know you make a deal and you do it faster than later and so I think police is good to go but I’m just pondering some of these other contracts that are not finalized or maybe going into negotiation and I think we maybe need to all create a little more sense of urgency here because maybe we shouldn’t be setting this aside for these retroactive maybe the default s sakes it just sits in this what it was or know where we should be negotiating those before the expiration Department contracts instead of waiting and waiting and then I think it’s fair to say that that was the goal yeah and I hate to go into the details of the factors that can work against you yeah I understand I just articulated my position that retroactive raises are off the table on day one and everybody has to have it negotiated by the time and I know saying well that’s our conversation no I wanted to make that clear the electricity

okay I’m just one person I make a momen with a list of adjustments and I’ve just put I think the police is one we may want to talk about just me all right amount of page eight hearing nothing no I’m sorry I don’t have anything on eight I was confused okay a benign all right so on the Harbormaster boat operations is the Harbormaster going to have a boat I’m glad you asked that he has a boat but you can’t take it out on the water because the motors are not working and so initially the idea I didn’t know that it already had reached that point and I initially proposed putting money in FY 2010 budget to pay for two who motors for that boat but then it occurred to me with more information that that would mean another season without a harbor master actually being able to go out on the water so we’re currently looking at finding actually we think we have found a way to fund that in the current fiscal year apply the balance that’s or almost the balance that’s in the boat operations account to that to to lower what needs to be taken out of the other account which we do the capital capital reserve account which is a very appropriate account if you have to use an account it’s it’s meant for that kind of purchase but that would then obviously obviate the need to budget that 40,000 plus in FY 2010 C idea currently the harbour master is cautiously happy okay and paving to capital look I got a little nervous when I saw that yeah just as a typo note the operations total for Public Works operating expenses I hadn’t adjusted that for the removing the stuff for capital so that should be 350 150 it’s right in the grand total but on that cell total operations total yes 5150 where is that Jessica I’m sorry page ten first Linus’s operations total not the first line but this says 685 150 that should be 350 150 just cuz I moved it to capital and I didn’t change the subtotal okay so page 11a Miami is jumping out here yeah I do have one question on page 11 um I’m just curious in you know I realized the amounts a little big but the Historical Preservation advisory board asked for funds and they didn’t get anything if I may I’ll just explain where it came from the first of all it’s a new request it hasn’t been budgeted before secondly the request was for $5,000 and I put in 2500 what the money is meant for is to purchase the signs for the historic districts that we have and I think they are from that mistaken cost at 1200 a piece something like that I think we have two of them in town if I’m not mistaken I don’t think Sue Anderson is here but anyway that’s what it was meant for and my okay I’ll try to hurry up so I thought that this might be a good example of where we should try to get

some supplemental funding from another source I realized that for a new request it’s a larger request on the other end I also think it’s something that actually benefits the town to have that kind of signage I think there are some economic benefit but started to keep you waiting Donna I was just trying to say that they don’t have any authority to ask for anything that’s the only reason why I was trying to tell you something for us not sure that’s true no no they’re not listed anywhere they’re not listed in the Charter the board’s Commission’s came they were appointed by the council and how is that happening because they’re not in any group there’s no pool listing on my policy they are to serve only in an advisory role to the Planning Board when they are asked for advice the statement on the request for the budget is they never had a budget and have had a house plaque program that didn’t cost the town any money what changed from advisory to just starting a project in requesting $5,000 budget who would Pro who approved the but that project there are historic district signs and tivan and four corners where did they come from much did they cost these are my concern in summary Sue Anderson actually the reason I know this is because she addressed this problem with the CRC with proposal number 46 and their goal would be beneficial to the town but they think I just feel they can’t ask for a budget for a project that has not been approved by the Planning Board because throughout her CRC proposal she says she they answer to the Planning Board and are there to answer any questions that have to do with history nowhere does it say they’re supposed to go off on their own and stop projects and have a budget someone from the Planning Board or the town council would have to approve it if they go along with the advice from an advisory council board and that’s what they are they’re an advisory board so I don’t know how this came about I don’t know how to help them they didn’t get in the Charter they’re not in in the town council policy boards and commissions so that I can even see they’re not even listed i IIIi don’t know I I don’t think it’s that we can under the circumstances who approved it oh we have this plan it would people by doing this we would approve I’m just saying that they’re an advisory role and I can I say something about that and it may not satisfy you but I just noticed that was reading the comprehensive community plan the other day and it calls for a somewhat more substantive role for this particular committee in implementing some of the recommendations of that plan that was adopted you know through a public process so I’m not saying that answers the question that you raised about if they’re not in the Charter and they’re named as an advisory group you know should they be able to do this but they’re certainly seems to be a recognition that there is a need for work to be done by a group like this in the comprehensive plan the other thing that made it a little bit easier for me to go along with the proposal was that it’s a known entity we have signs like this it serves a good purpose I think for for example you know visit us to town and everything else and it recognizes some of the resources that we have in town but generally speaking I think has been consistent with town policy but that’s just me and I don’t have all the history that you have if I may yawn the problem is it seems like it wasn’t discussed with anyone that could approve it and all of a sudden there’s a five thousand dollar budget you have it well still it was five thousand they put in for I think under the circumstances that I don’t know I feel that this shouldn’t be any proof for this due to the fact that we need to figure out what their role is they need to be listed somewhere and they need to know if they if they’re going to be an advisory board who will approve their their project that no one approved any project all of a sudden well no but I think that’s what this process is this this happens a lot where people come to us and say well

this is what we want to do next year and by putting in the budget we’ve approved it see what I’m saying Donna so if we didn’t like it then we don’t do it instead of coming to us on advisory this specifically says Advisory Fest historical preservation that when the Planning Board needs some help well yeah I know what they do so I’m not understanding how this happened I’m certainly loved the signs I just think we need to take a step back and figure out where this all fits in and how they fit into the the whole plan and they were saying they they can’t they really don’t know where they’re going to get the signs there was a guy in Westport I guess he’s passed away in the nice signs that they have there they like I think they need some more time to get a hold of one what’s more cost-effective for the signs if the Planning Board or the town council decides to go forward with it I don’t think it would be the planning pod it would be us because it really is not no but once again you know you can’t spend your money on everything you have to yeah nothing I want to spend it but that’s what it might be worth this small detail but perhaps something that’s not a charter or state law founded board maybe moves under your budget section or maybe the council’s but if it’s truly an advisory board to the council said there’s looking to answer Donna’s point there’s a clear line of accountability on here I mean in addition of that there could be I mean there’s no description or what their role is I mean you can’t find it anywhere except that I happen to have what she wrote up it’s it’s well written but it is written up it as advisory okay so let’s let’s talk about I’d like to talk about some of these Civic appropriations how do you go run anything yeah I mean I think that this is an interesting one I mean it’s there’s no doubt about it these are these are really important organizations and they’re probably performing functions that if they did not perform there would be a calling for others perhaps the government to perform I guess I’m just a little I’m all about ramping down instead of just like lifts and on the other hand ramping up kind of you know and I’m just wondering if at least on the visiting nurses if we should discuss if if if they really I don’t remember because what’s in front of me doesn’t show the historical amount but if they’ve been receiving five thousand dollars for a very long time and philosophically were we’re coming to a place where we feel like it’s an appropriate or made oh you know to take taxpayer money and give it to five organizations I’m not sure but in any event I’m wondering if that’s just too big of a drop in in one year and so if that’s the direction that at least a majority wants to go as I’m sure there’s some disagreement on that I’m just wondering if it’s worth discussing that you know you know sort of easing the transitions so that that was that was one basically that’s my sort of general comment so that’s all I have to say particularly on the visiting nurse I think is that a long-standing span yes okay I think it is and I just wanted to check whether you’ve been able to read the supporting information in your binder these folks write in and many of them provide statistics as to you know the percentage of the population in our town that is being served or the actual numbers and as far as I know you know it’s a very active and competent and important organization in terms of the services that it provides to people in dividend who need that type of assistance so but I don’t have the history of how far back this goes it goes way back I just remember this subject came up when I was when I was on the Budget Committee and it started as a philosophical discussion about is this a town’s role to pick and choose charities or should that be up to the individual taxpayer so it started from that premise and then I I did some research and the the what you call it the amount of funding that the visiting nurses has is

huge we’re talking millions of dollars in their bank account and so it’s and they certainly wouldn’t stop deserving our County but they’re sitting on their balance sheet is huge and I think he’s big community was also the same so that was a decision we opened up a discussion a couple years ago in the budget committee you know our five thousand really isn’t going to be doing much of anything to help them and it would certainly do more to help us so that was just a background that I’ll give you can I ask what the the source of that information is their balance sheet yeah their webpage statements yeah what was it called but may I ask which because visiting nerve DNA has chapters and subchapters and what is Newport County have or whoever where I believe I looked up in Newport County I believed I looked up the one that serves to burden but this was a couple of years ago I can’t imagine I’m just giving you some history just same question on the conservation district is that is that one that’s been sort of had a budget but we didn’t spend or is have a long history of lake fun well I don’t know how long the history I do know it’s an organization that basically gives us access to other sources of funding in particular the Department of Agriculture’s Natural Resources Conservation Service Program that provides grants and technical assistance and what-have-you it’s a program that initially was largely if not only focused on farmers and agriculture and has gone beyond that to more general conservation practices and more than some other environmental organizations is able to communicate effectively with farmers who typically don’t like a lot of interference and so I think some of the backup information suggests as well although I have some questions about it that they actually do now the money that you invest you you get it back multiple times through those kinds of grant programs and projects that they they do that’s the justification that that I know about it I’ve been involved in funding it in and out of town as well I think it’s it’s a strong organization that provides helpful assistance to a town now the oh go ahead we still talk mother well I was just gonna um also about the eastern Rhode Island Conservation District they have been extraordinarily helpful to us particularly in addition to all those other programs in helping us sort through the abuses in the farm forests and open space program which was a program that is provides for a significantly reduced tax rate for legitimate farms but because it’s sort of administered or and you’re enrolled in the program through diem we’d reached a point where we had quite a few scofflaws who were paying a lot less than property taxes and they should have because somehow they’ve gotten themselves enrolled in the farm forest an open space act and eastern Rhode Island conservation wasn’t for that idea either this is a great program for legitimate farmers so they’ve been very helpful to us in helping to sort out who correctly belongs in that program and who might not and helping the truly legitimate farmers get the correct documentation so that they can stay in the program and they have a certain amount of street credibility with de m so if the tax assessor doesn’t think this property belongs in the farm program and neither does eastern rhode island conservation it’s been helpful to us so they’ve done a really great job in the last couple of years of helping to get that program to be helping the people it’s supposed to be and not people who just want to find a way to not pay the property taxes this

is one I’ll say the Eastern Area and Conservation District I had slipped my mind but in the past I had argued that it was shouldn’t it shouldn’t even be in this because they were more of a service provider than a majority so I mean if anybody wants to move to restore that thousand later on as we wrap this up I’ll support that um now the fire rescue community training as anyone talked to the fire department to see what benefit because I feel this is the program there’s all the CPR training research I think it does the fire department’s recertification too so the question is if we don’t have it here how much is it gonna cost to get us someplace else I just didn’t know if the acting chief knew we were cutting that I believe you have a fellow in the binder yeah where is it yeah and it’s in there somewhere right it should be in the I can’t find it no I had that page up in time yeah it isn’t your binder there are many of them so I’m trying to find the Rhode Island Bristol County’s gross receipts of 15 million assets of six million no even even if the even of that there’s more than that you got to look at the one because there’s more than one that in theory has Tiverton in it I think this is to run the free clinic isn’t it so like do the free flu shots home because we’re giving it to Newport County yeah but they’ve come and spoken to us I don’t know it was last year it’s it’s to concentrate on timid residents well I don’t know it’s very clear well maybe Medicare might know if they just have Medicare they might not pay for everything Medicare doesn’t pay for everything so oh did I know that because I’m a healthcare professional this is visiting nurse h/h dot-org home in hospice like I get when I don’t think though one of the things we use for the budget committee was um and I don’t I don’t know who came and spoke to the budget committee and who did not out of this list of people Pacific that’s what you did and the ones that did not come to speak um I don’t remember visiting nurses never coming to the Budget Committee no I don’t know but yeah they used to come they not last year Donner and he gave them five thousand right and put it in there I guess the question is to me and it’s a tough question is there’s this is actually something on my to-do list and my charity work because I’d like to compile every single charity that you that services to burden and and I bet if you finish that task it’s going to be something in the hundreds and hundreds when you think about everything from the Red Cross to you know and so how do we and every single one of them does great work right so how do we think about how to allocate how to allocate that and that’s it’s a very you know there’s different organizations that you know if you think about the combined Federal Campaign for those of you that work in the federal government there’s a it roughly takes on all comers and there’s a catalog that’s you know that’s at a hundred fifty pages long or something like that and you can allocate it just it’s just something that I be nice if we could figure out a way and maybe there needs to be a benchmark where you know one-tenth of one percent of the budget goes to a vetting committee and maybe that vetting committee is the budget committee or maybe it’s somebody else but every single one of these does create work and I find it difficult it’s very it’s very hard to look at a list in front of you but at the hand of that there’s hundreds of other great organizations that aren’t on the list that also have a great can tell and a great and so it would be if we can strive in the future towards a framework or where where a charity bills a gap or at least a perceived gap of course they all do that to some degree I think we do poor people so otherwise we’d have 20 million dollars of charity getting back to the fire rescue Mike I think my question is should that be under the fire budget well I’m not sure

I actually don’t see that referenced in Tom’s right now I can’t find it well I have it right here and I think he would have yeah I know it has but the more I was thinking about it I don’t think it’s training of the firefighters no but it does I think they do there sir I think that I think that does their recertification for their CPI for their CPR class cardiac certificates which I think they have to get done regularly and I think dad went to certify well I think that kind of no I would have expected him to mention that in here that’s all yeah I don’t know well I think we should ask because we can we have to hire somebody to come from outside or we have to send people a way to get this done and it’s gonna cost a lot more then we should know that yeah cuz I know to get recertified in ACLs which they need it cost me $100 I know and that’s in the budget money to get this recertifications done I don’t think that’s through now I want to talk about parents and teachers they came to us right Donna don’t you remember them coming when you they’re the ones that do the pre-k first of all it was a grant and then it it never where Annika absolutely but so it’s not really one that way because they don’t he’ll all the services cuz it’s it’s it’s not a grant anymore we had to come up with the $500 because they didn’t get the grant anymore right right and they do the pre-k oh you know we’re gonna answer this is where Sally I know it’s not under the school department anymore but at least you could give me some background on it parents and teachers I know it’s not under the school department name ah you don’t know what they’re doing in all of them yeah they are active because they took it they took at this gym it’s not there all right the treatment on page 10 nobody find it up oh I wanted to talk about that one I I’m just I we couldn’t find any backup material but we got it tonight and I am sort of interested in the history I know the big thing what one of the big things they do are the septic inspections and stuff on it for the state correct and it’s actually for to town they don’t do the inspection they don’t do the inspections they run the program that makes sure that the inspections happen and that we follow up on the results so actually this was a presentation they made to the budget committee at its last meeting and I thought there might be of interest to the council since it’s a budget item and interested because like in 15 they asked for 20,000 but they I guess they didn’t get well they didn’t ask I think they got cut back from where they were before that’s the history that that I saw and then for 20,000 actually that was restored at one point and then the budget committee took it away again and and that was the history of that and as I understand it from Leroy Kendricks who made the presentation is that for 20 thousand you really you don’t get anything done really other than you know answering the phone for people who have questions about their septic systems and everything else but not really this proactive program of following up on the inspections and then the whole idea of this program is that you ultimately cover all of the town where it’s on septic systems rather than on sewer because the septic systems is 90 percent of the wastewater that’s being generated so is there some reason now that ramped up that they want they would actually like to go back and this is they would like a whole lot more than what is in this budget request a lot more a lot more and they can explain why and I think you need a presentation from them at some point Laroy was actually asking me today when he could be before the council I said well time is running out a little bit but this is an important program and the other thing that must be pointed out I think is that we have this program in part because by participating in this program and and helping to pay for it we also make available to residents of the town this community septic system loan program and through that program people get financial assistance in the form of no interest loans when they have to upgrade or replace their septic systems so people who have failing septic systems

and under the law need to get rid of their cesspools I’m not entirely on their own because doing that replacement or upgrading is becoming more and more expensive so this loan program is available because the town has implemented this program including an ordinance including the inspection program and everything else town wide inspections to be completed within six years that was a while ago that was a while ago and it’s a function frankly of the funding why you know they haven’t made more progress they’re very easy to make more progress so far the main areas where inspections have you done are in the staffer pond and an attic or cut upon areas and even there we only have 70% of the of the properties actually compliant or participating so far but all the other areas of town we have septic systems that still need to be done and we’re all behind we still have in this town a very high percentage of cesspools operating that are by now illegal and you know it’s one thing to say it’s illegal and you’re bad but it’s another thing to provide some meaningful assistance to help people change to you know appropriate septic systems I just said oh yeah this is the this is year three of my discussion on this and you know coming from the conservation commission I’m all about clean water and I’m well aware of how dire the situation is getting was septic leach it around here in certain areas and cesspools that you know need to be updated and and failed septic systems however I I have asked the wastewater Commission for the last two years the ordinance that empowers them to do any of this is so far out of date it’s not even funny I mean diem now has has a more aggressive cesspool phase-out than what we have in our ordinance these inspections and not the wastewater District wasn’t responsible then the town was I mean all these inspections were supposed to be have been done seven eight nine years ago and and before any more money is sent and this is what I’ve asked for on sending letters out to people right telling them that they need to do something that doesn’t come with any enforcement I keep suggesting take a little of this money and spend it on working with the town to upgrade the ordinance you know now they’re responsible for the ordinance upgrade the ordinance come up with a plan that works because even when we have the letters there’s a percent there’s a certain percentage of people who cooperate right they they get their septic systems inspected the people who septic systems are gonna fail they just take the inspection letters and throw them in the trash meaning this has been going on for years and there’s no there’s no there’s no one for there’s no enforcement of this and there’s no town approved enforcement of this we’ve never said to the waste water district listen if somebody keeps ignoring you we’re okay with this so you know on the one hand I think we need an inspection program but on the other hand the underpinnings of this are old they’re outdated they don’t work and that needs to get addressed first the other thing I would like to know is exactly again and eyevac we’ve got it last year is how many people are applying for loans and getting them through this program because the last two years and maybe they need to do a better job of marketing this that number was really tiny so we’re four for $37,000 I’d like to see this program get overhauled well first of all I’m not really the one who should be answering you know comments like this it should be Laroy Kendrick sort of staff of the wastewater district I have spoken with them they’ll be the first to say that it doesn’t make sense to try and have an inspection program if there is no enforcement now the question is who is responsible for enforcement we have not enabled or empowered the wastewater district to do enforcement it doesn’t have that authority only the tongue does but we haven’t been doing it that’s the problem we have an ordinance and it may not be what it should be but as it is it

requires enforcement but we’re not doing it so that’s the real problem and in my opinion and I think it’s very hard for these folks at the wastewater district to do what they’re mandated to do if we don’t do our enforcement piece right there is no enforcement piece so right now there’s basically a fairly expensive letter-writing campaign I mean I’m being listen I believe in this that’s not that I don’t but it we’ve had this for I mean this program when the town owned it had the same when when the wastewater department was here under our purview it was the same program so you know if insanity is doing the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over again expecting a different result this is kind of where we are so and for the last two years I realize you weren’t here yawn but when the wastewater district just come in front of us I’ve said the same thing you know take some of this funding and rewrite the ordinance and let’s work together to figure out what do we do for people who you know don’t how do we how do we get people to upgrade their septic systems when they need to be upgraded what do we do about failed systems that people just won’t do anything about especially because the DM has very little money for enforcement DM is missing in action on this one yeah it does have the authority and the mandate it doesn’t have the capacity to do what it should be doing it did develop this program with the concept being that if you spread it out over the communities you develop more capacity to go after these problems in some communities that has worked exceptionally well in some communities had nuts not worked and Tivat and is one of them although and they have some statistics that they presented through the budget committee as well there is a fair number of people who are actually are you know taking the step to replace these septic systems and part of the problem there is now you have a level playing field problem or some people do the right thing and spend the money even though they get financial assistance sometimes it still was an expense on their part and other people get away with not doing it so that’s another issue of you know should we be concerned with that or not I do think that there is an ordinance I do think that the inspections actually generate data that if we had enforcement will in capacity we would be able to make more change happen in terms of cesspools and failing septic systems in my mind in 2015 they refer to here or you know there’s an older one the the ordinance the ordinance is I know there’s a copy of it on the waste water district site but the ordinance is is from like 2003 yeah somewhere around then and it hasn’t been touched since then I do want to say this fulfills disclosure they are sending letters out now and I’m one of the ones to gut it and it’s 30 days and I’ve called around today no one is going to inspect a septic with this weather like they have to do a bunch of stuff and the grounds frozen and 30 days from now nobody can guarantee that the we’re still gonna have not frozen ground and then in 30 days there’s all these fines well I called them out to some people and they agree with me we can’t do that now I again I’m not the wastewater district I can’t really answer the question other than I’m absolutely convinced that we have circumstances like this that make it impossible now to do the work they’re gonna grant you some you know well yeah well there’s no doubt in my mind I mean they’re not crazy people either well to send a letter out they’re not just well what about not much first telling people 30 days I mean it doesn’t take no one’s gonna it doesn’t take too many more rocket scientist to figure out that the ground might not be thought out in 30 days okay well I mean I’m not saying that we shouldn’t I’m not saying that we shouldn’t fund this I’m just saying that I don’t think that the inspection program works and I think that we if we’re going to fund this it should be for something that is going to work and I think that you know frankly what needs to be done if I’m not mistaken is that the council directed me to work with the waste water district on you know pursuing upgrade updates through the ordinance if that is in fact needed but also to look at what we can do to get enforcement going and that’s our responsibility it’s not the district’s responsibility yeah but they’re fine it is there maybe it’s not it doesn’t have

the authority to do right right but their responsibility to come to us and say we need a new ordinance er not necessarily I mean you know we this is not originally their mission their mission is to deal with sewers and then we convinced them to also administer the on-site wastewater treatment program for us so that we wouldn’t have to hire people to do it not quite the history here well the thing is you know we contracted with them to administer this program and then we more or less washed our hands of it and that’s not working well but we didn’t okay well this is off topic but I don’t think we washed our hands of it we have approached them about doing things differently and we’re just we’re not getting anywhere give up give us direction and we’ll try to make it happen practically what you need to talk to them okay I can’t answer those those questions because I don’t run that organization I don’t know exactly you know which money is spent on why so they’re acting as the contractor and this is the perspective bid that they’ve sent us in this you know yeah I think it does make me wonder if there’s more event that they have presented and I didn’t I didn’t have everything that I you know got at the budget committee meeting there’s another sheep with some of the statistics that I asked them to generate this one makes you wonder what ruff I was just brainstorming that this amount of funding since it really isn’t part of the sewer districts you know statutory requirement they’re essentially as I see it a vendor and this role I was reflecting on this common are we below market on a building official and if some of these funds were if it is a town responsibility it seems to me that would be the building official I don’t know no western town could be but he’s like oh enforcement right now it isn’t anyway it’s just a fun okay we’ve been at this for two hours and 40 minutes we’re done with the detailed docket I know we spent I think two out of our workshops talking about capital so I don’t think we have a lot to debate about the revenue numbers on those to say the revenue numbers have improved so should we try to hold ourselves till ten o’clock on capital discussion and then take some votes we you wanna just do motions on this one and get this one done I don’t know I just do the whole thing oh definitely at least in my view we come from somewhere and then I you know yeah you know we did spend a lot of time in capital reserve yeah we I do can they make one correction of what I said earlier so Nancy just handed me something that indicates that in fact the community training center does train town employees and not that includes Tiffany fire and police personnel library staff etc etc so I stand corrected I wanted to make sure and Denise was right Wow Denise was right yeah I think we haven’t if we have to we have to go ahead um are you gonna bring up you do it first time what on capital yeah so I have some things in capital the the base treat remade remediation I don’t think this belongs in capital at all this is this is not this is not money for the voters to vote on or as proof as part of the FTR this is settlement money from a lawsuit that’s restricted in purpose and to tell you the truth I would like to separately and for the purposes of time not do it in here I would like the council to have a whole discussion again about Bay Street because I remembered some things but after the presentation the other day I went back and did some digging and we really need to rethink a plan for Bay Street but I I just don’t think this belongs in the capital budget it’s not you know if you stick it in there it’s a it’s a kind of smoke and mirrors way of saying look at all this money we’re spending on capital this isn’t a capital expense I think it doesn’t belong in the

well I just think it’s gentlemen it’s a settlement and it doesn’t belong I just comment on that because the settlement there’s a settlement fund there’s a certain amount of money left in that that money is set aside for a Connell and the lower end of jetson streets yep it’s not even enough to pay for what needs to happen there things that the town is responsible for under the settlement agreement in addition to that you have all the other streets you have Bay Street where we still need to work out hopefully with the ot what its responsibilities is there is a large project there that is associated with the Ness the necessity to install sewers and that as soon as the sewers and this is the other thing diem has let wastewater district wait until it was actually done with designing the sewer project and being ready to go and therefore also hasn’t really enforced all that heart on failing septic systems in that program that patience is running out there is pressure on the wastewater district to get the sewers in the ground as soon as that happens the town’s responsibility comes into play because the soils underneath the roads are the town’s responsibility under the settlement agreement for better or worse that’s that’s what we’re dealing with well and it’s not I think smoke and mirrors I think if you listen to that presentation now now I think we’re confusing two things I’m sorry the discussion of Bay Street and the responsibility and the plan and what we should do going forward forget this I was just saying that all of that I think needs to be a completely separate discussion with the council because I think that yon you’ve heard some history on this and and some of what’s gone on but not all of the history behind this separate but what I’m saying is so forget that part for now just in this budget that this 250 thousand dollars here right which is coming out of the settlement fund correct to Coombes it can’t and number one and it’s not you know something that’s in the capital budget in theory the voters have the right or the opportunity to approve this isn’t something this money is legal settlement it’s it’s not I’m just saying that the whole 250 on both ends it as a capital improvement and and coming out of the fund ought of come come out of this budget it shouldn’t it shouldn’t be in here as a line item oh there are a few items in the capital budget when I developed the capital budget the idea was to identify issues in areas and projects that haven’t been done for too long that need attention and to some extent that has work that people have you know become more aware again of certain things that need to be done Bay Street I think is now I don’t know how many years it is being that the settlement agreement was written and we were supposed to get certain things done and people in that area have not seen that happen except on their own properties for which they have their own responsibilities so that is I think an issue with how much time has gone by but what what really would with the capital budget there are items where I suggest that a certain amount of money is needed knowing that there may be an offset in some cases from other sources and I agree with you that it’s not for this process to decide how the settlement fund should be use that that’s a good point but it could in some instances offset the work that needs to be done for example at a Connell Street and Judson so that that doesn’t have to be in the town’s capital budget where you can offset it that that’s all it says so when I said in the first year 250,000 and then we go up I was looking at what I expected and I think it’s actually going to be more than what isn’t there believe it or not what we would need if we were to meet our responsibilities under the settlement agreement taking into account when the sewer project can move forward because when it moves forward our responsibility gets triggered so I thought it was prudent to start thinking about what is this ultimately likely to cost and how can we spread that over a number of years knowing that maybe in the first year if part of the work that’s ready to go is a Connell and injustice that might you know lower the amount that we need out of the town’s capital budget okay

then then I have two responses one is I think the eye I think that it is premature at this point for the town to assume that we are in and of ourselves going to be liable for all of this remediation work that it might concern and I I don’t think and I’m just gonna give you an exact I don’t want to belabor this but there are there are written agreements there were discussions there were things that happened there’s written history on this that seems to the versions have changed and I think that you the council everybody who’s involved needs to be aware of those things this whole thing with Bay Street was not unknown to the water district they had an opportunity to participate in the lawsuit the town wanted them to join in they declined and said and and they didn’t want to participate it was entirely known when the waste water district was created this was a known issue and the thought at the time was that based on the funding with USDA it would all work out it didn’t at one point there was a workgroup or committee that was supposed to be created that had representatives from the council representatives from North to Vernon water representatives from waste water and some of the homeowners or property owners there to try and figure this out because there are bigger issues than if we just build it they’ll come we’ll just fix that that’s that neighborhood where there are a lot of economic challenges some of those properties are frankly assessed at values that the total amount of work between connecting to the sewer and if there’s a lot of remediation that’s going to be more than what the properties are assessed for like this is not easy and and to say we’re just going to invest this and at the end of the day the wastewater districts going to have liens on all over these properties that isn’t so that step that was supposed to happen where there was a group that was supposed to work together to try and figure out this might be a place where actually if we’re gonna try and do this this is where you need to get federal clean water money and I mean because it doesn’t make any sense to just say well we’re gonna do this big investment there and I’m not saying we shouldn’t help these people but we should have a plan that we’re pretty sure is gonna be successful at the end of the day not well we’re just gonna start this and then you know his problems come up we’ll cross that bridge when we get to it that’s just my opinion so as far as that I don’t think it’s ready to go into the capital budget number one and number two if this funding it the way I look at it if this 250 is being funded out of that it is which it is again it shouldn’t be in the capital budget the voters don’t have the opportunity to vote to spend that money on anything else they can’t say they can’t look at this when they’ve going to vote at the FTR and go oh I I don’t want to I don’t want to spend 200 it I’m not saying we shouldn’t do it it wasn’t my proposal to take it out of the settlement so that you know according that was not mine okay all right so I didn’t understand that but so I’m just saying I think the whole thing that the out of the settlement and in the capital budget it should go it should not be in there I have a question for Justin though if we didn’t take it from there would you support taking it from somewhere else not because that was gonna be the condition that’s the condition that we take it from the settlement and what Trish is saying is true if it’s settlement money people really don’t have the right after we’ve settled okay I mean I’m fine with as long as it comes out in both places or goes in in both places we can’t go into both places and they because I understand we can’t use that settlement money anyway right well I just want a fundamental I don’t disagree and it sounds like you have a consensus but I’m not persuade that just because it’s settlement money that that the voters can’t vote on it on the FTR just like they voted on all kinds of things that have restrictions that would almost be like saying they can’t vote on the labor unions because we’ve already bound bound down I mean so it’s you know it was a court settlement and I don’t think it does matter it’s the same thing it’s a source of all revenue and frankly I don’t I think it’s kind of smoke and mirrors it’s transparent instead of us apparently unilaterally spending a quarter million dollars you know so I but we was told by a judge we had to spend that that makes a case to the

voters and say that it shouldn’t be on the docket that’s looks like we say they can’t vote on and I just fundamentally disagree with that point but it’s sounds like suppose the voters say no then what do we do with the money well just like all the times that this is the fundamental debate right I mean if what if the voters don’t fund the police contract that we just hired right fired or ratified so I just fundamentally disagree that it’s a problem to ask the voters to vote on spending and if they choose not to then well it sounds like it’s moot because you’re withdrawing okay please take please take the money is it gonna come out yeah because I was I also agree wholeheartedly with Tricia I’ve been very very I just like I don’t want yeah I I just didn’t want the whole town to be responsible for something and there hasn’t been enough a study on it and everything else is really really bothered me sooo what’s next okay on the transfer station recycling center study plan and I want to ask you on this if we decide if the town decides that we’re gonna have a recycling center if this is what we budget for this year can we build a recycling center in you know four months no I don’t think so because if our deadline is November 2020 and the only thing that we funded this year is the study then what do we do if we’re actually gonna build a recycling center I don’t know I mean that’s not just a question for Jana I guess it’s a question for everybody the problem is that we haven’t made a decision that’s ultimately a political decision as to what you want to build whether you want to transfer station if so whether it should be a big transfer station for the municipal solid waste or a small order transfer station for the difficult to recycle items there nonetheless recyclable that discussion hasn’t been going on but no decision has been made so I can’t really you know do the impossible and say when we’re gonna build it that’s a political decision that needs to be made at the town-ho’s Town Council level okay just on that one my picking and putting that in there is we’ve heard and discussed that it’s kind of have to decide what we’re doing with with trash and that’s there if we decide to we need to study then the money’s there if we if the town goes in another direction and we don’t need the transportation we don’t you don’t have to spend money on the study that was just okay that makes sense so on the town buildings I’m a little confused because some of these things are some of these things are they regular maintenance or are they for specific projects like if you go back Town Hall’s got a nine thousand dollars in the maintenance budget and and I understand that something might need to be a capital repair if it’s you know a one-time thing right like we have a plan we’re replacing these windows or something but the regular maintenance that the buildings require that’s the other one okay so what’s this so is there a list of what this is for because if I’m a voter right I want to know what what is this that makes a capital what is it for not kind of this isn’t the regular or we got to patch the shingles or like you know there’s a piece of rotted wood or we got to replace a door hinge so what is this for when I first looked at it is with the awareness that for example in the planning and building office area we have a not very efficient use of space it may not even be adequate space to really house two different people who have to work in that area one way to deal with that is through a renovation that reorganizes the space and makes better use of it somewhat related to that is the issue of record storage in this building which is not in the finest shape it’s in terrible shape to the point that you have to wonder whether it’s apropos the way we store records down there’s and we’re also running out of space there is a way to make better use of the space that is available in this

building downstairs but it would require a true renovation or a rehab project downstairs to create a better space for records for example those are the two items that I was thinking of when we developed it certainly the storage record storage issue is a big one I think Nancy can talk a little bit about that as well there are certain ways to do it and otherwise we’ll have to go off-site although the long-term solution is really to go to electronic record-keeping but we’re not there yet so none of this is recurring regular not meant to be recurring regular maintenance no okay but we didn’t take the regular because it doesn’t make any sense to take that away either and then the the the other to the playground upgrades in the parts and the garbage and recycling Bristol to me those aren’t really capital I mean can I say so because in the earlier version of the other version that you have with this capital plan you have five years yeah you see what happens in the five years and it’s spread out over different locations in different years in terms of what we can do with a certain amount of money to bring the recreational facilities up to where they arguably should be and also do some planning in terms of you know what does the town need if anything in addition to the current recreational amenities that that we have so only looking at the 2019 20 a year doesn’t really create a very I think informative picture but this was the result of a multi-year analysis of what needs to be done this one reflects I think the understanding that town farm is a priority to do something there not only to replace the jungle gym that have to be broken down but also to start looking at the fields and what needs to be done to what extent that can be reconfigured so that that’s really what you’re looking at and it’s it’s a very partial picture in this particular version of the capital plan my problem with the playground upgrades parts at least what seems to be this year it looks like it’s – look around at various kinds of shades for playgrounds ladies yeah the the description at least in the back up material and said playground upgrades American Park super shade various sizes shapes of shades of shades and umbrellas and I just think that’s a a little bit premature because we don’t really have the playground there and secondly I’m frankly concerned that they’re not they’re just gonna get destroyed or stolen firstly but so that was my concern with that one and then also the security cameras I think are a little bit premature the BB gun I guess okay any other comments on capital no I I just want to say that I am a little worried about capital to many capital expenses that you know a fifteen hundred dollar like those aren’t necessarily you know I mean garbage and recycling we buy those every all the time that’s not really a capital thing and as long as I understand I understand no budget I understand I understand well then but you put it in DPW and like give it I mean because we must find by recycling and garbage bins as we need to and actually there’s grant money for recycling for buyings bin in the there’s actually grant money for that I think there’s still money in that account I’m just looking at from an accounting definition if it’s an asset that’s expected to last a year or longer that’s a capital item or if it’s an item that’s ancillary so maybe it’s a maybe it’s a garbage bin but it’s part of if it’s part of a big facility then you can append it to the Capitals but it’s 1,500 bucks one category another you’ve never done the document this well before so I’m sure we’ll keep it fun again you like that document oh well this is exactly the kind of discussion I think that’s good you know we need to have you know rules of you know sort of a chart of accounts type of okay so it I’m hearing a pretty strong consensus to

remove the base tree error deviation so is there any other discussion on capital and we’re going to turn quickly to revenues and then get to work a little we have a nose looks great I don’t think you have well a lot of it was simply moved right so the quip interlaced plate was mostly a movement from the current doctor the fire department is a new request for rescue truck so the only the only adjustment to the work to the asked was for a used bus for the senior centers or one of your ration I don’t matter we is the senior bus that we have now working it’s working but it’s questionable how reliable it definitely the director is concerned about that there’s been a discussion before about some people think that we should be able to get another one from RIPTA or whatever and not clear that we will be at the front of the line since we’ve had a couple of them we’ll keep looking but we need to fund it if we’re gonna try and oh I have one more question sorry on the copiers and Printers are those are we are those were buying or are those leases probably leasing actually this this would be purchasing I think at that time I was still that we put in so that we could buy more but I’m frankly coming around to going back to leasing but you may have a different and give an idea what the cost would be I have a spreadsheet that Nancy currently has actually we just did an inventory of all the equipment that we haven’t and which ones should be replaced approximately in what sequence and what the associated and so it would be the leasing costs in the upcoming fiscal year it could well be here what would be the dollar amount Oh what would it be I don’t have it in my head but I need to get this well I guess again if we’re gonna lease them it you know twelve thousand like well we don’t know what the number is but then the question is the three or four that need to be that are getting to the point where they need to be replaced right answers is the first one but but I guess what I’m saying is in that case do they belong in capital or do they belong in each department as a recurring expense operating expense if we’re gonna lease them I’m not I don’t know either I just think that it helped to group it together as IT infrastructure because the copiers and Printers increasingly apart you know then network the part of the that system I I don’t know if as a matter of principle when you lease something it’s no longer a capital item I don’t profess to them to know the rule am I thinking I known as if releasing it you either in the department or if we want to put it under recurring major time finance payments that might work I think it ought to be in the operating budget just because the distinction is clear when you set aside here fun fun balance is operating because the idea is you’re covering for things you have to pay for you have a little expense you don’t necessarily have to pay for something happens right I mean I get me asking these questions so because I don’t want to make things that make the budget not smooth because one year we stuck them in capital and then realize we got to stick them back over and die like if we’re gonna do it this way from the get-go let’s try and get things in the place where they’re gonna live long term we have an estimate of lease payments in the first year no because I would need to figure out which ones I meant to should be replaced when I can’t very quickly you may be able to do much better I think well I I might suggest we don’t need to have precision on this we obviously need to take a vote but there’s another month or so of work for the budget committee of a policy give them supplemental information no choices there’s of course but so maybe the thing to do is to just to move the twelve thousand in the operating it’s not gonna

get lower hope yummy you said there’s three or four copiers that need that’s my understanding right so if you have Nancy’s I believe the one here in Mary Lou’s office I think the one in the tax collectors offices I’m sorry I can’t survive in the first year of the replacement process you’d be looking to replace four 300 a month three or four degrees money change so I think it’s in that ballpark is it I’m right well we do it so when we’re doing the voting we’re doing on Justin’s numbers right well what I what I think we should do we need to very quickly talk about revenue especially since it went up and then what I was gonna suggest do we have up we have a motion on the floor and I think the proper procedure is to take motion to amend if anybody has tonight I have a question for you I’m amending my own motion on revenue I don’t need a vote on that right I just do it in a second second or two I know you made a motion on revenue you have to do know I my intention with my motion was to move the whole package I see that’s fine can restate did you get a second justice justice budget yeah so what are you gonna make I just wanted to amend the revenue to reflect the latest estimate for the record so that would be the new base so without objection I guess I’ll amend my motion to change the revenue as follows recording fees to 140 building permits that’s a thousand building permits to 169,000 inspection fees to fifty five thousand seven hundred miscellaneous revenue in a building inspection four hundred a br application fees 2700 I don’t agree with the new and high cost especially at 70 1478 Oh in landfill at 22,500 I think the police detail had a hundred thousands low so I’m gonna maintain my number at 114 six three six second zero is he making a motion what’s the net the net effect of those changes to change the bottom line by thirteen thousand to increase it by thirteen thousand eight hundred and forty three dollars and twenty eight cents check increase the increase the seventeen thousand number yeah just this will increase the number previously was seventeen 825 386 the new number would be seventeen eight thirty nine to twenty nine a police that please detailing I think my stew miss may I ask a question so things past each other sort of in time when Nancy distributed new estimates with the agenda and the backup materials and then your proposal came in with a separate set of estimates that were slightly different you know adjusting it to be consistent with okay exactly and the only thing that you then add is the very last section of your estimate revenue right but that’s included in no not the bottom line what is right above that yeah if you look at it the fund balance withdrawal things like that that’s included what I’ve moved okay I guess I don’t know what moving means anymore but that’s why my intention when we began was to move my whole package expense budget the capital

and the revenue that would be our new starting point from which we so if anybody wants to move to amend things polka ending all right sorry I get it that was my intention to I’m sorry I wasn’t clear I did just to take Justin’s revenues in it what’s the but the new revenues in there my understanding is that the original motion has been with simply restated I guess you said amended but basically restated I guess technically they want to be squeaky clean that would require and so it was your second my first time did you withdraw your first motion yeah well yeah and I’ll replace it with these new whatever okay and so the question is for Nancy are you okay with the withdrawal of the first motion a statement in the restatement the restatement of we’ve bumped up the revenue by fourteen grand but we’re still always diluting the whole package no I’m confused to move it to where I think yeah motion just a motion so we only have one live motion on the floor we’re about that entertain motion to amend but that doesn’t mean we can’t change just because because it’s my motion I don’t have to move to a detailed justice is higher which is a for those of us looking to make some additions and subtractions and that at all out the net effect is you put fourteen thousand more on the table yeah thirteen thousand forty dogs and twenty eight cents okay so we can we can do this one at a time I just I just wanted to share I have websites 13 and a little fuzzy on police police said somebody want to discuss that but I spoke with the chief and he thinks that the numbers between the two documents are close enough to what he thinks will be possible to get this this year so he could he he thinks that the 114 is could be more specific question is right do we need to fund the salary line sorry offset to be somewhere else perhaps an overtime or somewhere else or you are you conceding that we need an adjustment to the yeah come on Denise I guess Rob can’t see you behind the ball yeah can I ask a few questions okay oh I’m sorry Denise arete child treasurer taxpayer Tarun originally when we put this budget together we had included the salary increases for those contracts that were under negotiation and then you folks had a special meeting I think on a Saturday and you voted to take it out of there and put it into the contingency fund so I calculate that right well exactly it did reflect the original one so we took it out yon came back to me and he said take out the the potential raises and put it into contingency so I calculated what that was going to be plus the Social Security plus any pension ramifications and that came up to eighty eight thousand five hundred which was why the contingency request went from 100,000 to 188 five because that’s where all of the salary increases for police and fire were and that also coverage Social Security and their pensions but since then that’s been a we’re pretty much that’s written in stone that that’s what it’s gonna be right so it’s so back into the operating well it could go back into the operating but where am I gonna get it right we’ve got to put a motion to put it back in there okay so like I was saying that monies know where that money’s nowhere right right now so there’s no money for the second year of the increases might I do not well yes 88 588 five was right that was the number that if if I did a two percent increase across the board for police and and fire plus their

Social Security plus any pension ramifications because don’t forget two percent increase affects other things their longevity it affects the holiday pay and those things go into pension so all of that gets affected but it’s actually a three-possession it’s actually three percent the second year it’s not two percent total sense the FRA calculation was only two percent because back down it’s three percent so that’s that’s even more than eighty eight now we’re talking hundred a more than that but just to just to state the obvious there to be no no ongoing negotiations and I’m not sure that the treasurer is privy to right now yeah I know right so but these aren’t negotiations anymore we both t8 it and on the police side I’m a police side right that’s what I’m talking about it’s right that okay so we’d have to do a little recalculations but it was assuming 2% on all sides for both of those contracts that’s fine what were you talking about before I get up here we talked about the salaries and with that the details revenue oh okay just a couple of points in one of the slides and then on the Supplemental revenue that was added at the very end with the the Reserve carryforwards the capital reserve carry forward if you look at a regular monthly report you’ve spent some of that this year right this fiscal year you bought a truck in carpeted at the Town Hall so that 116 is no longer available it’s like fifty three thousand nine hundred and ninety nine dollars and then again it’s what fifty fifty four thousand and and that was I heard discussions about it instead of the 116 it’s what 50 39.99 and then I did hear some discussion about buying the outboard motor and the paving and draining carry-forward that was the carry forward from fiscal year 18 into 19 which in keeping with the resolutions as we have in the past it gets added to the current year appropriation and that is what’s available for the paving program for this current year well we’ve spent three hundred and twenty three thousand as of last Friday we just paid a really big cardies bill so we don’t have quite the 243 and I’m sure that we have 254 left and I’m pretty certain that mr. Rogers has indicated that there’ll be more paving this spring just to be clear I I took the total amount and then I looked at the backup materials that and totaled all of what had been planned to be done for the rest of the year and how I arrived what would be left so I didn’t just take to carry forward and carry it forward again I did try to account for what’s expected to be spent this year so you think the county fire is wrong no the carry forward number was right okay I’m just saying that to date we just spent three hundred and twenty three thousand today in paving we just have already come out of the carry fuck whoa the carry forward plus this current year procreation and in in my mind first in first out so I spend the carry forward first because that was really last year’s money and then I have what’s left over for the current year appropriation and I don’t know exactly what they’re planning but idea it’s usually the spring where most of the paving money gets spent and the bill that we just paid was from the fall so it was this fiscal year but you know there was some negotiating on the bill that he was doing with cardi so it was a little bit late and getting paid right that’s a correct carry forward but I don’t believe that that’s gonna be available by the time we get to the end of the spring and he’s done all his paving because our money for this year it’s gone okay so we have the carry forward from 18th plus the current year appropriation so the we add also the common appropriation is what you spent that’s gone that’s gone so whatever he

does in May has to come from this carry forward right gotcha the current funds gone well so what you’re saying is the appropriation for this chair in the carry forward will be spent I based on what he just said plus what’s happened so far this year it’ll be spent so that carry for would not be available just be what we appropriated this year whatever carry forward is left is the bits and pieces we scrape together at the end of the year for the rest of their operating budget okay can I ask one more question about the the revenue on the on the paving for which I know a separate paving for the industrial park which again and I understand what I understand what mr Colts are saying about transparency I don’t know so maybe we need another page in the budget or something but I asked myself if that’s a vota belight ‘m right but the money’s been already voted that mean in previous budgets the voters have already voted to set that money aside to do infrastructure work in the industrial park if we listed in the in other words should that be should things like that be an addendum to the budget like a remind the voters voted for this you already voted for this but we’re gonna do it this year but we don’t put it in as part of the appropriation it’s not an appropriation do you know what I mean I’m all for the transparency part but it’s confusing if you’re voting on itself yes so I wonder if that should come out and be listed in a addendum thing because the voters already voted to do that well they voted to put the money in an account and the way it’s structured here would be voting to use the money for a purpose but the but the purpose already was part of the account it wasn’t just like we’re gonna put it in an account it was voted for infrastructure for doing specifically doing infrastructure in the industrial park that was part of what they voted it for wasn’t just like we’re gonna set this aside for something in the industrial park it was like this is what we’re sending it aside for if I’m not mistaken you have a capital plan in order to make the capital plan feasible you have to appropriate certain monies what you need to appropriate is not the same amount instead it’s estimated to cost all that because there may be some monies already in place to pay for that and I said that at the very beginning that I didn’t have the time to figure out exactly how much money is already in the kitty to pay for part of this and now the problem is do we need a separate document that says okay this is the actual appropriation that you proposed this this year towards the capital budget I don’t see why we would I mean maybe you don’t spend so much on papers in the department you still put a number here and maybe you don’t get as much revenue in a certain place you get more you still put a number here it’s not so we’re saying this is a specific project in our capital fund we’re proposing but it’s not okay but but the point of the FTR right is to is to vote on the Appropriations and this is already been appropriated and and if we’re if we do this the right way in the future we might even have a little bit more in

terms of funds that gets appropriated say we want to buy something expensive but instead of paying interest on it we say for the next three years we’re going to set aside this money so we can pay cash for this I’m just making that up and we ask the voters to do that will that money set aside for specific it’s already been it’s already been appropriated and I think you know I think it would be more transparent for the voters to know that we’re doing what they voted to do with it and we shouldn’t be hiding that but they don’t think this is an appropriation cuz it’s already been appropriated for this specific permit to try to bridge the gap in this case if it was a resolution not a docket and maybe there’s a distinction between okay it’s restricted for infrastructure but the voters never said what does that mean does that mean paving does that mean sewer does that mean drainage and so this is adding more clarity so in this case maybe you just want to err on the side of it and vote again and then we to your point we need a more global look I mean this is something that we spent a lot of time on on the Charter Review Commission which is you know wires all these pockets of money not going in front of the FTR and a strong majority of us on the CRC deal the Charter is quite clear every single penny that goes in the town coffers goes to the FTR in this case maybe it did already once a question is whether it had enough first of all was in a resolution not as a budget proposal and secondly was there enough guidance was that the expectation of the voters that infrastructure’s whatever I guess we decided is no I think it’s more so it’s pretty specific it did very specific trainers yeah yeah it’s 25% of the sales go back to okay well I do think that I don’t know we need to answer every single one of those questions tonight we had Budget Committee well on the docket the docket and as long as the numbers in the bottom of mind are there okay so what it’s 10:30 we’ve been doing this for three hours are we gonna we gotta plow on we gonna continue this meeting tomorrow night what do you what are you what’s your pleasure Thank You ed tomorrow night I’m I’m on call only I’m not really excited about continuing the meeting because we haven’t really posted it I think we can but what continue I have I have I have I’m just showing all my cards I have like 10 or 12 line items to suggest changes to they all add up to a net change of zero I guess we need to talk about I have police and the yeah I’m just maybe you have another dozen aren’t how many we’ve got to talk about this police funding right Justin well we have to do that and we have to talk about the paving right and the contingency fund I feel we need to elevate that but they asked me and the Teamsters context because I don’t know where you’re gonna get that money when I’ve attended we agree to it well that one we haven’t agreed to yet no yes it sounds to me like we well the police you have me clear to me where that line is right now unless it’s somewhere in health insurance or overtime or the compensating savings what do you tell me the salary increases of course the salary set by other other negotiated points to some degree so I don’t know if globally it’s all in there or if you think we should just err on the side of caution and I’m at gross salary as the treasurer suggests find increase in a second yeah yeah the best of my ability I are you using all the knowledge I had of both negotiations I built them into the budget as it stands well where is it okay so you’re saying well we’re not being transparent now really well we stand the police well where is the sunny mind all they’re doing is putting it all together but we agreed to it they agree to it so where is that money well well my I didn’t just I didn’t isolate them I took police and fire figured out the number and that contributed to my final contingency fund amount okay but that’s totally not transport no wait the three percent raise we just gave the police it’s not if if it’s in there hidden somewhere as a town councillor I need to know what’s in in there all right I can’t vote for this if I don’t know where it is it doesn’t add up I combined it all and so it’s not just police it’s police and fire which isn’t fully negotiated yet but where is that

but why why don’t we have the police salary in there the 3% we should okay so I’m gonna put all my cards on the table and you guys can can beat it up is that a good place to start I just want the answer to that the answer to that so I’m gonna make a motion to put the represent salary increase into the police Sally account and this well it’s not just the three percent so the three percent and all the trailing effects on benefit Social Security all the yada yada yada things so driven by just so I’m justjust for this question of procedure are we and I’m comfortable with this are we comfortable with someone’s gonna have to crunch a number like that which means it won’t be done tonight I’m perfectly expecting that she’d get perfectly comfortable with whatever consensus that the treasurer the town administrator or somebody is delegated to finalize and transmitted to the budget committee because esepcially actually think I agree with your motion but it’s not motion will include in my motion that the treasurer will work it out and put it into the budget in the bottom line will be the bottom line but it might not be the bottom line that although I have to admit did and that’s new for me yeah I mean I’m used to at the end of the day before we vote I know exactly in dollars and cents what I’m voting for and I only have ten back tomorrow and here’s the thing it’s not just that but the there are revenue numbers that are often here we don’t have those I mean I like I want to know what at the end of the day that a member looks like before I vote that’s just me if everybody else is willing to have a theoretical thing well I kind of agree with that well there’s a middle ground which is just making an estimate so we can do some quick math and take 3% to the gross salary line possibly do it yeah call it to the good these are all estimates so we’re trying to you know we’re giving the budget the best of our ability to the budget committee state funds will change other funds will change by the time the budget committee is done hopefully we’ll have fired up but Justin we know that we already gave three percent I don’t know what the problem because I think you’d be presenting in here but tell me where okay so what I’m like this is this is fine we’re gonna have some disagreements that’s okay let’s let’s just keep working so what I think we should do is let’s make the best estimate that you can if you’re willing to do that and let’s take a vote on that motion to amend rather than delegating to a number uncertainty you figuring it out Denise I mean yeah nobody’s doing in your motion for the moment about the emotions in men but then but the question is if what Justin’s saying is the 3% is in here and Denise puts the 3% in here right much in there then now we have 6% in here possibly okay the data can be read a caution especially if if you share the view as I do that the contingency fund is a little crazy so that we don’t know where that isn’t there that will counselors here voting on a bad day but why can’t we separate it then why can’t be separated because we believe there’s already agreed on the police we know that’s partly if you want to add that in that’s fine today this of the day the contingency fund is too high or too low I’ll buy a little bit well it’s 25,000 now it’s not and that’s that’s where I’m trying to bridge the gap here if we agree and I think at least you and I agree that the contingency fund just is too low yeah a fan even if it turns out that the police is overstated then we don’t have to spend it just be that that’s the lesson for all of these items just because it’s appropriate doesn’t mean we run and spend it right but the thing is my taxing people then we’re gonna put it back in the general fund I mean right and spent on but in particular that we hit if we know or too low in an area like contingency which is part and parcel of labor I don’t think that’s you know okay so why don’t do you wanna have you figured it out well no you may be old emotion and otherwise I’m gonna suggest we split it in half and take the 88 that we heard and divide it in half and put 44 and or at least or we take the math out right now and okay well I’ll hold that motion now make another one hey I think we gotta just make them and if they would have you better go page my page at this point are some of you like me thinking of in terms

like a package or work what’s yours I can go page by page because I wrote them as we did it and that’s that includes what 3% insertions of Carrie now the pensions totally different yeah yeah okay so my mom’s I like but let me ask a question does that like include longevity and all that other stuff well then that should be fixed then I don’t know it’s right yeah I’m starting to think that maybe we need to see this when do I have to go in – well I can we meet Wednesday night well can we meet somewhere else library no we’re gonna continue in I I think we can get trouble I play Lord for the council no no I can manage earning this meeting we would continue the meeting and we’d have to put posts all over this building yes we can maybe a free shuttle to wherever we’re meeting no we can do that auntie I’ve done that I think this yeah legitimate it’s video tape video so wait can we go I mean it’s better to do it tomorrow but you can’t make tomorrow nice to have show your – I’m gonna call from 7-8 a 7-foot day oh maybe you could make it home what time are you on call – Devon believe me just make a sanity check do we have a working consensus to continue the meeting without adjournment and I want not gonna happen unless it’s unanimous because I’m not taking some kind of open meeting complaint unless we’re all on board of that what day you mean what day I can do two Zeca do Wednesday our deadline has been night at Wednesday and I’m a practical perspective we’re gonna hit the deadline we’ve done a lot of work but you know if a new number comes in and something to change is 5 to 10 grand and we transmit that information with a budget committee and perhaps we persuade them perhaps you don’t but it’s not like this goes on we’re giving it to nationalize it died last vote well I mean nothing it was administrator’s well I can’t I cannot guarantee I can make it tonight I’m gonna call from 7p to do you guys if you want to do without me okay so does anybody else have time constraint Tuesday or Wednesday no although I have to I’m gonna I have to be in Connecticut at fool I won’t be able to leave Connecticut before 4:00 on Wednesday but it’s Eastern Connecticut and unless there’s really bad traffic as long as we meet like at 7:00 I should be able to make it Wednesday 30 this Wednesday might do it to know what do it Tuesday and if I get called in I can D do it Tuesday Rob if you want them more time I love to have Joe on tonight well I think fundamentally we have to decide where they were comfortable with an ST or I am covered with an estimate but I don’t want to pressure people if they need more time so well that wasn’t in that just in here you’ve a lot of leaf or the bullseye on put something here that we can all beat up on do you have a strong preference where the other um I’d rather so we’ll all walk away from the table unhappy about something if we’re gonna continue I’d rather just continue because I don’t want to settle on one

piece now and then have time to rethink the other piece is that I think if we’re continuing we need to the whole package on one night does that mean that shows I mean tonight or what I’m happy to continue I mean we’re coming up at 11 o’clock there are known unknowns right so you continue to Tuesday or Wednesday that’s fun that would probably be my preference and then maybe we can get more organized with what I want the minutes to reflect this all six counselors is there an objection that our presidents aren’t supportive not a journey with continuing the meeting until tomorrow or Wednesday up to you guys I can’t me so it sounds like it should be Wednesday cuz nay that assures us because obviously hold as long as we’re here so so we’ll give you as much time as it takes to get back in Connecticut that gives Joanne all the day hopefully they get Joe oh that might be campaign I think we have to actually make this decision on the spot I think that’s part of the whole but don’t you have the book for the book I think you had a book where I’ve been looking at what the library has even if we just I want mrs. only portico usually well it could go late depends on how many applicants they have but I think we might cancel it I heard I don’t know I I wouldn’t count on them yeah I don’t think we can count on it how sure can I count on the library and our school liaison commit to the schools can you find us a home in school our kids now feel is usually free I know I think she’s we don’t talk so much well the Senior Center is big enough that there’s space somewhere in there well that’s a problem all right well maybe I don’t see anything on this one say let’s try the Senior Center the senior centers usually not booked it’s not like a try like if we will be holding a meeting outside on the sidewalk we can’t miss the deadline you know definitely announce to the public now we have to follow through on that because I’m not Bob wait a second what you can do is we go to the seniors that does have it in a little moment and then we say we’re gonna move to town walkers it’s up to many of you because Town Hall is now clear cuz it’s only as long as you go there you can move it it’s it’s the weirdest thing in the world but we did that once yeah you kept moving it to the people got bigger and bigger know that it’s gonna happen I’m just saying that if something but I mean I wish I could so you’re asking about no I don’t think the library undies the library’s booked the community room is booked the library’s open its booked the library looks booked it doesn’t say what’s there but it’s got well the Senior Center has enough rooms that you know the audience that we have today it’s reasonable to assume everyone could have caught that building could accommodate yourself down there

okay so the proposal is going to be that this meeting is going to be administrative Lee continued not adjourned administrative Lee continued to not adjourn until seven o’clock on Wednesday March 6th at the Tiverton Senior Center which has an address of banana kiss Johnson Anika Street intuitive that meeting will start at 7 o’clock we will immediately post notice in this building the Senior Center and then we’ll notice anywhere else this meeting other than the seniors that are here don’t you have to do the library don’t we always most meetings at the library there any questions from the public on what the procedural posture is this meeting is not a journey it is administrative Lee continued attacking a recess for about forty four hours until seven o’clock on Wednesday March 6 is that are there any questions about that I think that would be a very good idea all right all right we have a motion to all right and the second please anyone wishes to speak in opposition no second call all right hearing none all those in favor imposed okay this meeting is not adjourned but is administratively continued and recessed for four hours you