Alex Epstein Visits Pittsburgh University – EID

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Alex Epstein Visits Pittsburgh University – EID

Elias I’m the CEO of the Objectivist Club a little some about our club our club meets every week on Thursday nights in Benneteau hall to talk about the ideas of mine ran and I Moran was a novelist and philosopher and I think our ideas are extremely important especially to people growing up and trying to figure out what they’re doing with their lives Alex Epstein will apply to Iran’s ideas to energy issues a little something about our speaker Alex Evans an expert and he’s an energy expert and philosopher he’s the president of the Center for industrial progress he’s the author of fossil fuels improved the planet and his writings have been published in The Wall Street Journal Forbes and investors investment business daily and hundreds of other publications he’s spoken about economic and environmental benefits of fossil fuels at dozens of universities including Stanford Duke Rice CMU and UCLA and now pip is defendant fossil fuel energy and debates against greenpeace 350.org and the Sierra Club my pleasure to introduce y’all Alex Epstein my official bio doesn’t include CMU but he’s already trying to endear in Jerry Junior all right so I don’t know just a quick poll we’ll give you the three options fracking is this controversy that seems okay let’s try it this way we’ll go through my original steam life I’ve never known that response so who thinks that it should be Lila okay and who’s not sure so at least have someone certain desirable part of my job tonight them will be to argue the illegal case because it’s a very strong case and our culture it’s important it’s important to know because you’re going to hear everything so tonight I just want to share kind of three stories that that shape my own thinking and I think there are a couple of interesting now here’s one more poll question actually I forgot this one but I can’t forget this which is who here knows what fracking is so who here could give a good explanation to someone on the street well it must unless you know stage right it’s so let’s get clear on what it is first because I’m in our culture right here if people say I’m Pro this I’m against this in my first question sorry do you know what this is and explain to me and they can’t you know we want to just like get the basics on it before we cover them so who wants to try okay that’s pretty sophisticated so you’re familiar with the terms like bedrock so you know that’s that’s very accurate let me I’ll give a bit about just similar characterization so essentially fracking because it means more easily getting oil and gas about oil and gas but I don’t think we’re taught I certainly in all my years in school and high school and university never actually learned what oil works like underground so in my imagination oil was just like this giant swimming pool of what when we

drilled down and we sort of sucked it out with a straw and that’s where the oil industry and in reality is not in and I thought it was that way from water too and I know it turns out this stuff exists in rocks so when they drill the first oil well in Titusville Pennsylvania you know they had a it’s a bunch of rocks but the rocks have the part have enough what’s called the porosity and permeability so they have enough holes in them enough where you can sort of suck it out stroke well then you can really suck it out it has pressure and then you have to do all sorts be a junior stick so there are different kinds of rocks with oil in them and some of them are pretty piece of you know airline and some of them are super super tight so a lot of the history of oil drilling and gas drilling has been to figure out how do we get the oil from progressively cleaner stuff and for a long time for really since the beginning of the oil industry there is this material called a shell which people do it and they knew that there was oil they could actually use a lot of heating oil out was that as month they could get it out when it costs more energy to get it out then the energy negative return on em so for over a hundred years this was the situation now the problem with this or the frustration was this is an enormous enormous deposit of oil there’s just this this is the mother for various historical reasons this is actually where oil and gas is born it’s born what’s called the shell or source rock and then through various processes it becomes liquid but if you can figure out a way to get a liquid from the source rock thy steps immediately took a long time they couldn’t do it what turned out to be the key near one of the keys is this technology called trap which is hydraulic fracturing now hydraulic fracturing in your life debate in the culture about oh this is a new technology this is an old technology and the truth is is that it’s both it’s a technology it’s been around for seven years and essentially what it amounts to is to to make those rocks those oil or gas bearing rocks easier to get stuff out of you crack them it’s fracture them with high-pressure water other substances and you break them apart so basically you make the hard to get the hard rock but the difficult rock and it’s easy and when it turned out with a lot of really small technical innovations there has been about 150,000 products in the build in recent years you can now turn the shell which is like solid stone you can get oil and gas out of it you can basically get energy from a stone and what that’s done is that’s just opened up an incredible amount of energy in the United States so maybe North Dakota’s become famous for shale oil and where I live in sunny California we have what’s called the Monterey shale retention of biggest oil show the positive or controversial basically this is a way of getting energy through stone and the question is is this good now just about everyone knows that their economic benefits although some people will say those benefits than others but what’s the what’s the knock on what’s what are people saying that what about this process of using this water and sand by the way the sand is so that when you crack open the rock you can keep it seal of prophets for the problem you prop it open so that itself so what do what people say is that this process yeah it poison is a poison so this is and this is this is you know we I need to say at least we do not want where is how we live there’s been a few things more important so the idea although it’s not very clearly expressed is that either when we go down and we inject this stream of water chemicals into the rock that that somehow gets into the ground there and then sometimes people will say okay if it’s not there then maybe when once we when you’re done with the water went to once you crack but when you’re up you need somewhere to store the fluid and they say when you try to store that detonates so these are important things to look into and others so that’s just I just want to frame for you what fracking is what the basic controversies over and they’re also controversies of warming

earthquake so anyone’s free to ask those questions any questions so far yes for sure so it’s it’s very as I said there are a lot of different I mentioned 150,000 packs so part of what’s going on is when you’re trying to open up these rocks it’s a very very sophisticated things like the rocks are not naturally the way you want them to be so what the company is wanting to do is they want to use any method they can to optimize the flow of oil or gas because you invest a ton of money in these things and let’s say you get five percent more gas by using the service of suits that might make it come out more easily that’s a big deal and this is there’s a certain state but behind the term chemical which I find a little bit weird I was in New York and there was a guy against fracking and I debated him in a bar he would kind of was a heckler and I’m kind of a heckler – so someone stuck a camera on us like well I’m against putting chemicals in the ground I said we know you’re here we’re all chemicals right here a bunch of chemicals so the question is are there chemicals harmful or not and that’s something we can go into but I think sometimes people are good afraid versus let’s say if we’re doing organic agriculture abusing all kinds of chemicals degrees and our speakers sulfur the whole question is are using in the content and context that’s safe or that Stanford Sam can you mentioned benzene that’s always going to be an issue of Joseph Lincoln Kevin okay you have a tiny bit of benzene will adjust that as human beings no problem if you’ve got an enormous concentration to be the first story this has to do with thinking about the negatives of a technology because when I although no one here took the legal position it’s a very very common they often say who your see the movie Gosling so you see gas meant what gaps land amounts to is fracking was involved in this problem Friday with all this problem fragmented on the phone there for fracking now most of the criticisms about Gasland fracking didn’t cause that problem and in fact as far as I can tell guess that was wrong in every single instance or just it’s pretty remarkable but I think I don’t think that’s the most important argument because I don’t think the argument for any technology can be nothing can ever go like there can never be an accident you’re setting yourself up for failure just like if you say well I as a person deserve to exist only if I never make a mistake or I’m only gonna be in this relationship with the person acts perfectly every second so I want to read you a story of a different energy technology not traffic and I want you to think to yourself as I read this image it’s not important should this technology so this was a guy who visited the mining site for a certain Marion popular technology he’s talking about the link and it get intimidated the Lakeman he says the lake instantly assaults your senses stand on the black crust for just seconds in your eyes water and powerful actress stench rosary bars for hours after our visit my stomach merged my head thought we were there for only one hour but those who live in mr. Yuans village of dollar I and other villagers or even the same poison everyday people to begin to suffer dollahyde really just say their teeth began to fall out their hair turned white a puddle in ages they suffered from severe skin and respiratory diseases usually high rates of cancer high rates of osteoporosis and respiratory disease so let me ask two questions on the basis of a story like that we hear a story like that about in technology should the technology okay interesting sort of work conditions yes I’m guessing that okay wait I mean what if you voluntarily work at a company and then they but then unbeknownst to you they set up these

back but a because I think I think that what you’re sick like they’re making the point that you know you want to figure out a way to protect people’s rights but and in fact that they’re being violated okay so I don’t know if they’re using sugar see the benefits it mean it sounds like you take something like the big picture thing this is interesting because I I give this I talk to a lot of campuses and most have a very high concentration people who would call themselves green or environmentalist and you know they say you know for acting I heard a story about fracking in four French country I read the three of them and they say physicians because they of course what if I told you that this technology was window so this that’s where the story is from this is about the process used to generate the materials that go in doing those and then we’re actually getting responses what you said which is actually true I don’t think we should the point is that the many technology mistakes can happen abuse can happen accidents can happen and the point is that unless it inherently violates people’s rights we want to be on the premise of maximizing the benefits and minimizing the risks but if you think wind power has tremendous benefits the fact that someone that’s not the point yeah you know this story it’s really important to think about the big picture when one one way let’s put it is imperfection doesn’t equal or imperfect doesn’t is not should not be ileal and perfect shouldn’t we believe so if you hear this formula hey something went wrong therefore it should be banned that doesn’t follow you can ban any technology think about the risks and benefits of fracking we really need to look at the big mission what are the positives where the negatives and what are the best things that’s that’s the lesson I take from all I’ve started in my experience sometimes of iron also see the issue and once they see that their own there’s no such thing as for clean energy in the sense of nothing can ever go wrong in fact solar and wind are are meant to deal with tremendously toxic materials that are salimos hazardous energy to technologies ever created Solar has all the same things invention story and unfortunately solar panels you’re dealing with incredible volume to the extinguish which have an expiration date of 15 years and have incredibly toxic materials some of them are so toxic a friend of mine know one of our solar experts at Senator westrom Congress she worked with them and one of them you could not be around them in the concentration of 10 parts per billion if you hear about the fracking chemicals those are nothing but that’s the point is not that solar should be a week the point is you always have to picture in the solution you want to solve problems so that’s story now short number two James can you hand out the thing so the title of this talk is I think it’s interesting it’s not something I ever heard before I kind of came to the my own which is that fracking improves our environment usually what I’ll here is what fracking is good for our economy and it’s not the greatest for environment and maybe some would say it’s not as bad as you think but I really interesting school so really when we’re talking about fracking we’re talking about so the question is what does it be attempted good environment like what what do you think of if I say we have like we have a better environment than we used to what kinds of fact what does it means a better environment first doors yes okay cleaner water cleaner air okay a better way of life a nicer place to live right it’s an extended sense yeah I would I would include that under under resources and resources just like all these but ultimately you know do we live in a place we’re gonna access to a

lot of stuff around us so we’ve got resources yes high biodiversity okay so that’s interesting so biodiversity so feel a great on that a little bit higher number of different organisms living organisms the more living organisms might be in the condition the help of the because it’s binary so here’s that so that’s an interesting there’s an interesting sort of issue in when we talked about environment like I said our environment which is you often hear about the environment but there’s a question and environmental issues are you talking primarily about the human environment or the non you know minimal because often you know people will say well human beings are so bad because we made music and we should go bad about ourselves and certainly we have made service be 16 all species things you know other species extinct so I guess the question is biodiversity is it old is it good what if biodiversity went against you in life well that it’s really like enough question you can dividual to kind of I don’t know okay I’m here to answer that question okay so but I do take the broader point about so I come from well the human environmentalist perspective our focus on the human environment that we need to be concerned about all these issues in the ecosystem but ultimately the standard is does it benefit human beings or does it apartment but certainly it’s very important to understand there are dynamics and you know if someone makes a certain kind of language and that brings another issue which is certainly like weather and climate that’s a big deal environment because if an environment we’re constantly susceptible elements that’s a big problem know what interested me about this was this machine that you have in front of you which and there are other things around but that every one of the things you mentioned there and most interestingly resources for servos interestingly perhaps safety from the climate all of these have dramatically increased there’s a statistic there which is essentially that the deaths weather-related events going down ninety eight percent since nineteen so you know we hear a lot I’ve demanded a lot of people on this issue and without going into to what extent do co2 emissions impact the climate system you know I would say my best centers they have a very small in that that some and yet life has gotten much better so I guess the question I’m asking is why does fossil fuels have this incredibly high correspondence to all these try VAR y as fossil food-wise everything else or is it just acquaintances yes water in other words cuss up purification Walker okay so yeah so purification that’s that’s a really huge point because often we hear about clean water and then there’s an assumption that which is that nature gives us a healthy environment and we wish that were true our ancestors were stellar true or otherwise but unfortunately lurks page 20 or 30 apart because nature doesn’t necessarily do this and that’s why you know people across the world still have the lack of access to things like basic things like clean air historically interrupt the world many people the deep what is your default means of generating energy it’s burning wood and that gives you an enormous amount of smoke and then if people got other things to think about or you know susceptibility to leather we’d compare say you know the earthquake is 8 which was such a tragedy with torrid though there was an earthquake in Chile which was much greater in magnitude and yet I think 500 people and it’s because one place is industrialized what does it mean to be industrialists it means you have lots and lots of energy to improve for so whenever we talk about the fossil fuels important think of it as this is what allows us this is the energy including to improve our could think of energy as Machine calories before we could really produce a lot of energy we just had to do all the work ourselves there were certainly no hanging out at university you know relaxing and having tops if someone saw this they would say wiring your own the farm for how can you see

right and the whole thing that brings us out of poverty that revolution was that we could feed calories to machines and much greater quantities and then use that much more quickly so that all of our work could get done forests and essentially in today’s America we have 600 machine servants each of us doing all of our forests and that’s a whole standard look so the value of energy I think that the main point of this story of these statistics is that it fundamentally improves every aspect of human life so it’s not there’s all your economy and in your environment are separate they’re all they’re all all of these things are ways in which energy yes lack biodiversity run the risk whole extinction is more likely okay so how would I give you a quick answer now and just remember to bring that up in the question here it because it’s a worthwhile thing to get a little more depth on but I don’t I don’t have quite derail the fraction and the basic and sort of that is sustainability I don’t think is the ideal the ideal is actually to be progressive so if you look at human society human society is constantly figuring out better and better ways of doing things and that’s good so when I go to the gas station and over to the gas station have used gasoline because I think hey in 10,000 years my grade whatever branch other I could use gas I use it because it’s the best right now but at the same time there are all these people conspiring to figure out how to do something better than yes and then you know studying economics when the price goes up that’s a huge incentive so essentially sustainable resources is is not what you want what you always wanted want the best at any time and then what the mind does is it continually and resources into resources when we said mind turns non resources into resources so oil before Titusville Pennsylvania in 1859 was useless platform now it’s the most prized resource which of the things that we heard about was you know this beard rock in the ground and now it has mutate and believe it’s two Olympic sized swimming pools if you take Einsteins mass-energy equivalence equals MC squared there’s enough energy those pools to power the entire earth for you now the problem is that’s not a resource yet because human ingenuity has an unlocked so there’s a really good a Congress Julian Simon and his point is that the resource is the service to get in the raw material intelligent parks there’s a book called the ultimate resource – best books on this the ultimate resource Simon okay there’s a slight digression but very important the question that comes up and this is part of why we can expect this kind of thing to go up although in the future and may well not be fossils this time so the point is fossil fuels are just just happened to be the best cheapest form of energy now and that’s good we should use the vex but does it mean that we’ll always be yes or think about your sustainability and also the constantly improving and how good is the apartment imagine if you go to like the Pittsburgh that had photographs and build a day because all the coal dust huh it also fact when they were using horses for transportation right good wants to stay in that personal study yeah exactly they did any point company although I mean often what they they won’t say that we should sustain more oven the sustainability movement isn’t saying we should sustain without actually saying we should use something completely different that doesn’t work at all and then sustain that and it might be that much worse we can get a disorder manipulator there are very very strong reasons why those have been promoted heavily for 75 years and have really family just as their as one of my favorite statistics Germany is the world leader in solar and right now guess how many guess how many coal plants they’re shutting down because they’re building so much solar negative twelve so they’re building more bullet the most solar nation in the world to build even more cool because solar is an unreliable that’s been the problem forever it’s

nowhere near beats if it was great although it’s still taking huge amount of resources hey yeah so that’s that so the first story was about the big picture the second story was about how energy an interesting development that was a couple years ago where in response to gas land and on this furor over fracking which I think was really in fear I don’t think it was really justified scientifically their focus on this I think people just got focused on because was a new term but it sounds a little you know they were clever and calling it fracking mean adding it’s gay to him which which is not the technical spell against that they are its frac I don’t you know but even the Obama administration which you can imagine was an exactly friendly oil of gas industry Obama 2007 in Detroit declared the age of war of us and in our time he was gonna free us from the tyranny of oil which in Plankinton oxes and other companies now interestingly enough in the 2002 and he took credit fracking in the oil industry which I considered live inside any case his EPA did some studies and Lisa Jackson who was the administrator of the time saying the response to all of this she said there’s hope there was no quote proven case where the fracking process itself has affected so that was that was a big concession and it sounds almost impossible because you hear all these stories but the question of this is that people have absolutely no I do you know what fracking things because we understand what fracking this that’s fairly straightforward why destroy time so fracking was this process of breaking apart rock together energy and this is the key point where is that removed in relation to ground although how far below yeah so 5,000 feet Barry that’s a small distance can be up to 10,000 feet so if you go to the Gasland the website issue brought this graphic he’s got a picture of like the water and the fracking or the right next to each other oh my gosh something went wrong here it’s just going to contaminate the argument in fact see about every two millimeters there’s some crack and until black oil is going on reality there’s this enormous separation of about five thousand feet from the fracking process to to the ground so it’s really an unconscionable misrepresentation fracking himself is getting at the revenues White’s never happened never ever ever that has a frankly prospects let’s next it’s almost impossible to be accident free but it’s because the fundamental nature the technologies it’s so far away so fracking and it no danger to the process but now does this mean there’s no potential bones no but we need to understand precisely what those opens its not fracking that costs the public anytime you build near the ground drill we can disrupt things and say oil and natural gas can get into water now fortunately one of the natural gas bar basically concentrated dead plants so it’s not the end of the world if they get their people unusually dire you don’t really want them there but as far as accidents go it’s a hell a lot better than getting say bunch of cars or other kinds of materials we’re discussing it’s good there’s yeah the distance we’ve been working and it’s just a faculty of life that any time you’re near the water it’s possible for something you don’t want underwater to get in order and this is the point good match there are all these really interesting Forks 400 years before oil technology but people letting their water on the front just a classic Finnish ambassador now how is that possible how would not the evil oil industry that people like there were old money well that’s even before coal miner and make sure is that yeah yeah yeah it’s better but the point is Mother Nature didn’t make a rule that said no methane can get into the water and then man mother nature puts many more all the time that’s like you see some of the interviews with these people to ask them the when except for the eleven people

who have million dollar lawsuits and state basically every other single other person will say no this is this is just this has been around forever and often what will happen is if there’s Dometic so there’s oil and guest exists in different places in the ground sometimes really weak so when you bracket if you don’t have much problem but if you’re dealing with stuff near the water then any kind of natural disruption including ironically and this I believe this was responsible for some of the stuff and gas they no waterway so if you drill a water well you can actually examine what because you’re disrupting things and make some stuff together what if this is just that there are always hazardous in life there are always negatives in length and what we need to do is we need to be really precise and intelligent or thinking’s that we can minimize problems and in terms of oil and gas overall gaming how much oil that’s what that community that’s why you don’t introduce exid I’m from you know methane or something so there’s always there’s always room between the group but I think if we if we combine this this point about how safe this is compared to most procedures and we combine that with the incredible economic animals as a whole this efficient really be the whole attitude of the culture shift in my view and we should view this as like the the most exciting thing since the computer because the amount of energy were talking about first well we can get energy from stone how cool is that he just takes something that’s completely worthless it was sitting there there’s tons of it and you can just turn that into one well if it’s oil you know you can turn that into you know you can go on a honeymoon on that stuff right and you can visit your friends you can visit their family I can fly out here and talk to you about energy which is really fun you know about oil oil is like the main material and most of the products we have so you know the rubber on your shoes fertilizer there’s more there’s more you know rubber is oil so there’s more there’s more oil in your tires than the best the amount of things we can do with this useless rock is just incredible I’m never able to do it with so many benefits and so something that that we should really accept so questions the only other thing I’d say is hopefully you find this perspective interesting I think this is something we really didn’t need to get involved in particularly in Pennsylvania this is just all over the place so I asked to do two cameras one day I know you guys have your cell phones on feel free to turn on your cell phones go to an industrial progress net and enter your email just get on our newsletter also at the same website you can enter in comments definitely a lot of comments oh and any time during the three day industrial progress very my biased opinion more the best energy what what industrialization apples in England we adopted an aggressive so my view is if we look at the signs and what like repetition is in fact very immoral

when you talk about sustainability a moment of silence you’re talking about they that is it’s not easy that camp never sounds like jargons so rather than non-renewable resources so as well are you see that’s where it gets tricky it is but it’s over a very large time scale they cannot be regenerated so only to choose an animal so I think we’re done and by the way go to industrial particles so give me two choices okay so what is nuclear energy so nuclear energy comes from let’s say there’s actually and he actually sort of constructed his own basic model of how you know according to his projections it could power yes so I would say I’m just saying wait for more like some from this okay okay let’s let’s just understand your hypothetical is about the amount of uranium according the earth is completely staggered you can also recycle was unglued let’s say five spots 3,500 years and let’s say we do energy versus solar versus using trying to use the whole Sun and let’s even ignore the fact that all the materials and solar are very expensive margin and let’s pretend you imagine but let’s say you had one-tenth the quality of life at soul okay so we have but it’s going to last for five billion years when we should use nuclear energy now and have one to ten times the quality of life or should you start using solar now and have one life in the name of doing it for five billion years okay so the issue is again it’s an anti it’s not respecting the resources we talk about energy and resources resources are we create from resource energy right now we can get energy from the bill and they’re there five good ways of doing theirs pull well the Democrats nuclear know there’s hydros award the sustainability overall is against all five of those including orange hidroel├ęctrica so degree good green pieces website creators number represents okay how most variants for hydroelectric is leader that’s the only one that can’t scale Oh have yourself I mean I’m not talking about training we do not understand so there’s a big problem when you have a movement okay even opposes four out of the five sources of energy that people each other right now for the businesses today people need to suffer and die for my idea I think there’s a transitional so yeah the finally final color Metis is this happen is constantly and the way that it happens in which reports the price goes

up in your advance on it but what I resent is that the people make these claims create nothing they’ve ever done anything they just try to prevent us from using today is good image so right and so I don’t agree so what’s been thinking within what nation particulars just recognized vision how on your capitals and people come up with more and better things instead of telling them that they should use solar yes there that system yeah I took a while on that oil industry physicians so you know okay so one question just icier come from so do you think fracking should be illegal no okay okay so I just wonder men it’s not fun so what you’re raising is a legal question about how to deal with the hazards of any given technology right so if I say that that China has really bad laws about solar then I can say that the laws are in doesn’t mean solar’s anybody same token I would say the American companies often who brag about lower solar panel prices but to achieve them through these kinds of exploitative practices there appear at the very beginning in the example done of clearly killing people I would say there be anymore but the technology gets tough the question is the technology fundamentally good for human life which means right sorry I mean those all those kinds of things need to be examined so first of all you’d be talking about about compounds that existed in only certain forms of fracking and then the question would be or is what you said scientifically plausible and the other respect I would say absolutely not these are so really yeah and it’s a really important point on the gentleman brought up the issue of science and one one question I asked about any given claim this is this is there a really proven cause and effect here or is this speculation because there’s a hole in science you’re always dealing with new science is always dealing with speculative questions and it’s a really difficult thing to get to a true theory of okay this really causes we know that okay so I’m integrating that into whatever so even even like the term says she raised a big issue in the bottom of cancer so even the term carcinogen is I think a pretty not a very helpful term you can talk about carcinogenic or talks nothing is inherently toxic not even hair it’s an issue of immunity issue of context unfortunately anyone who opposes any technology can feed an enormous amount of that to a lab rat get it sick publish a study get attention a newspaper yeah every environmentally behind there whatever pressure of them I know what I’m saying is that these causal connections are faculty so science is not like some gone side they’re a bunch of scientists and very few of them believe what you’re saying and if they did there would be a public okay we have to get to you so I refer to the question earlier how my answer so to even investigate that even so show us so it should be a lot of chemicals am I saying that’s a what chemical like that so we disagree severely on the quality of being you would call it research I would call it speculation or even

propaganda that you’re citing so we disagree on that right so we both looked at these things I’ve learned in a suicide the rest of the audience doesn’t have much of a context so I would just say is is I’d might be able to really look up these different claims and look at both sides and see what the arguments are but you really need to be wary when someone says X as a carcinogen but that’s not a hopeful classification you want to see how a person’s name is how toxic other wasn’t to say organic food that’s toxic because you know a dude is arsenic arsenic is toxic to human being in certain one of these it’s nothing but what we know overall is the big picture point is that this is something that’s immensely beneficial and if someone is attacking it if someone is concerned about it they should be very solution oriented but they shouldn’t just try to find them oh this is a problem therefore let’s put a stop or let’s go to investigate that’s just a synonym for me it’s an indefinite ban because you always find something you are investigating you need to move beyond the premise of this is profoundly beneficial if we don’t do it people will die for a lack of affordable energy people live more when they have more energy so people will live unless they don’t have it you know motive they own the solution of solving problems and certainty if you’re talking about chemicals the most toxic you know highest toxicity chemicals we deal with yes don’t have access so many cases in many cases were published where the general the general category of the substance would be but exerting a distinction if people want to argue about disclosure rules I think that’s a legitimate argument to have but it’s very different than the reality or the morality based process one other thing about is these substances you know the command made chemicals that people are concerned about these are part of the disintegrates at the point of the basic nature of the processes to be separate from the ground so this is if you’re worried about exposure of stuff I mean the worst of the only real place you have a threat involved or the biggest hazard is not when you’re drilling in the ground it’s when you’re transporting this stuff to the site because you’re once you’re putting it in the ground it’s an incredibly incredibly important where this is why you’ll have oil and gas executives action bring fracking food so in a sense it’s healthier where you would have a problem is you don’t bring it in for me so one of the real things you have to be take the cautions on is when you’re going to feel the point here is not that nothing can ever go wrong and tracking you shouldn’t end up its held we really need to protect bikes and we need to be scientific yes outside a dresser the water to make your claiming to in fact of chemicals every day energy from the sake of my habits we have to complete this order but like you know so there is no yeah yeah that’s Villa tend not to come it’s another there’s a phenomenon that occurs I think with a lot of the green movement which I’ve called human racism which is essentially the again that if human beings do something it’s bad and if the rate press of nature does something it’s okay so like you know someone a lion kills an animal you know hammerites cool so like that’s fine

that’s great that’s nature but you needn’t build an animal that’s better that’s that’s and this this occurs ever does it occurs with and in most human beings are part of nature and if someone was looking at us from Mars or something you look at us and say oh the rest of the world is nature and work that really good and you would say hey that’s like the bet that’s that they came over the species were there you know I’m not religious for the crown of creation and that’s how I knew to munis philosophy so whatever human beings cause some so if I hear again the fact that our form of energy in effect you know energy is machine power is the fact that our that our machines breathe co2 just like they exhale co2 that because they’re doing a lot more work than we are they exhale versatility and it’s the only gosh that’s bad how dare we have any tiny impact on any my question is what is the actual impact because I don’t have any human racist assumption about human activities all scientific nor veterans life so this this goes to seismic activity I mean you’re causing seismic activity on a certain level like at any time you’re doing anything in the ground and then so you can call anything at earthquake and in fact but here’s the number of forum for earthquakes is just staggering perceptive so the earth is just staggering so if any technologies underground you can say oh it’s causing the seismic activity that sounds scary the question is isn’t causing seismic activity that’s dangerous and the evidence is very far from these are very tiny flips what’s interesting because that the importance of cracking do not seem to be genuinely interested in either groundwater or seismic activity the evidences they never discuss like solar and wind elements and those impacts those threats to groundwater and they never discussed the fact that in in Northern California which is not too far for me we’ve got you know geothermal produces real seismic typically that there are cases minutes brother 4.0 earthquakes yeah I didn’t do those studies so I can’t hundred-percent from that but there’s no interest whatsoever when the politically these consequences because they’re seen as natural right they’re seen as I don’t know watch really super deep in the ground reality is that more natural that you take the dead plants and turn enemy but nevertheless that’s the that’s the view but I would caution against this view that mandolin it’s bad and if the rest of nature did it it’s good we should evaluate everything by does this like with that sign up that industrial products and that feel free to email get outside and feel free to come up oh yeah and James says if you want to come dinner of Esther welcome as long as