Engaging Minds 2010 – Provost Price (Intro) + Christopher Murray

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Engaging Minds 2010 – Provost Price (Intro) + Christopher Murray

now I cannot imagine a better or more varied group of scholars to demonstrate just how far Penn has come and just how well positioned we are to continue our leadership into the future then the three penetrates knowledge professors we have here this morning and that’s a perfect segue for me to introduce our first speaker whose work is at the absolute cutting edge of science and technology in 1933 the British physicist Ernest Rutherford was asked about the potential power of the atom the energy produced by the atom is a very poor kind of thing Rutherford said anyone who expects a source of power from the transformation of these atoms is talking moonshine well with all due respect to the father of nuclear physicists I think our next guest might beg to differ Christopher Murray has focused his groundbreaking research in chemistry material science and engineering on the potential uses of nanocrystals in other words he’s not simply interested in the transformation of atoms but in their very creation and if that’s talking moonshine I think a lot of people are listening professor Murray and his team at Penn are at the forefront of nanoscience creating new building blocks sometimes called artificial atoms for materials that don’t even exist at this point in time for example human engineered nanocrystals can in turn be organized into one-dimensional nanowires two-dimensional sheets and three-dimensional assemblies and these microscopic machines could potentially work together as molecular semiconductors optical sensors electrical switches or even medical devices of course that kind of exciting leading edge research presents a number of leading-edge environmental and biological challenges and professor Murray is well attuned to these challenges and the responsibilities of scientists to consider the real world impact of their discoveries SEO said quote what was a compelling choice at milligram quantities to in a particular scientific inquiry may look much less appealing when someone wants to paint your roof tiles with it to harvest energy blending perspectives of academic chemistry and materials science with a technological background gained through many years of work at IBM professor Murray continues to advance the world’s understanding of nanomaterials at Penn he is the richard perry university professor with appointments in the department of chemistry and the school of arts and sciences and in the department of material science in our school of engineering and applied science please join me in welcoming professor Christopher Murray well good morning folks it is truly a pleasure to have an opportunity to come and speak to you today it is the strength of our extended family pen that is one of the key pillars for our current success and our future success the supportive environment and the successes that that you all have provided is what brings in the best and brightest in our students each year and so for that I actually I’m very grateful I’m a newcomer to Penn as many of the folks that are represented in this present series of presentations today but I’m the beneficiary of many of those efforts so what I’m going to try to do today is to share with you some of the excitement that we have for the opportunities to begin to engineer materials using chemical approaches that allow us to really go beyond the boundaries of traditional building sets that nature had provided and so first I have to get you kind of connected to the right length scale since much of what I’ll talk to you about is an effort to organize and engineer materials on dimensions that really are intermediate between the world of chemistry atoms and and small molecules and much of the devices and other components that we generally focus on and in fig about conventional technologies and so in this panel we can begin to look at a ruler that takes us through the world that we live in beginning to think about the dimensions of the smaller things that are in our physical world in the animal kingdom with our friends here ants and mites and other things to occupying this space that just is at the limit of our our own perception moving down through the natural length scales of our biological components even to the size of the blood cells and other

components that make uni such complex and beautiful machines in our own way and ultimately reaching the scale of the the fundamental building blocks of living systems in DNA and other types of components that again represent the beauty and complexity of what can be organized in in natural systems paralleling that evolution that has occurred over millions or hundreds of millions of years we have taken on the challenge of human engineering and design to begin to take things beyond the limits of sort of mechanical manufacturing on down through micro systems and I want to take you to a world at the bottom end of this panel where now we have a situation that systems are in competition between two general fields of physical phenomena the competition is between the world of classical physics what governs our our experience in day-to-day life in large objects and macro Scott the macroscopic world and the the mysterious world of quantum mechanics we’re very small systems atomic systems and other components must conform to the world of statistics and probability rather than the strict determinism of classical physics so you learn about this in your classes and a few folks that have gone through either in the basic sciences or engineering you’ve had exposure to this but traditional textbooks used to treat these as very separate camps there was one way that you treated the world and then there was this gap that was unknown it was essentially an area which we had neither the tools to explore nor the techniques to produce systems in that size range and then you got to the chemical components so I want to talk to you about what we can do when we begin to mix quantum mechanical behavior and and physical systems and what that might mean for opportunities in a whole area of technologies in the life sciences in energy and in continuing our advances in information technology and so the first part of your class today is to get a little bit of comfort with one of the phenomena in in quantum mechanics I know you probably didn’t have a plan for that and when you were thinking about what you how you would spend your your typical Sunday but with the bright students and the engaging folks in pens community I know that you’re up for the challenge so in thinking about the materials that will build with you can we can choose many different systems to work with that I’ll use my example today to be from the world of semiconductors we all depend on semiconductors and and we think about the advances that that many of the conventional technologies have provided us but now we’re going to change the rules a little bit and ask the question what happens to semiconductors as we begin to shrink down the size of those structures to be comparable to countable numbers of atoms how do they change their behavior and so in this image at the top you don’t you will not be quizzed on the equations that describe the density of states for for these systems I do promise but if you grasp the idea that in in a system like a semiconductor there are a level there are energy levels that determine the interaction of that system with with with light and with other types of excitations and in bulk systems there’s a fairly simple relationship in terms of how many of these energy levels that are available for a given amount of energy this is as technical as I’ll actually get when we think about controlling the dimensions of these objects we begin to change the rules by which they respond and we can begin to make systems that are sheets that are are only a few atoms thick in one dimension but extend over macroscopic dimensions in the in the other other directions and in that case we begin to change the property so that we start to get structure in the electronic response of these systems as we make something that is a one dimensional system we introduce another degree of confinement so that one of the terms that you’ll take away from today is quantum confinement the process in which we reach down to the quantum mechanical levels for these systems and the rules for interaction become dominated by things that are described not by simple physical or chemical descriptions but also the wave functions the delocalization of electrons in the systems and so it is this world where you’re now going to begin to sort of appreciate that matter is is not the same at all scales as we begin to reach down to the length scales over which things like electrons tend to move around in in systems we begin to change

their properties so these images represent in this case the this curve tells you about a phenomena of quantization that you’re actually fairly familiar with if you think about musical instruments the act of taking a string and placing two two boundary conditions on it getting it down and then plucking it will allow you to hear a particular frequency a tone and the music of beautiful music that we hear is because of the combination of those distinct resonant frequencies well materials have their own resonant frequencies and those depend on the dimensionality of the system and so now we’re beginning to engineer systems that we can artificially adjust the resonant frequencies of these systems over very broad ranges so that is the heart of how we’re changing a whole set of new technologies we can take existing materials and give them entirely new properties just by producing them at the right size that size could be something that is just 10 atoms across or 20 atoms across or a hundred atoms across each one of those structures even though it was one material one set of atoms that Nature gave us will give us an entirely new set of responses an entirely new set of opportunities in terms of what we could do with these pieces so the panel that I show on the right I apologize that this is a little crowded but basically these resonances that you see now are actually the these Peaks are actually the resonant frequencies of the interaction of light of just one typical material and they are changing as you add just one layer of atoms at a time so it’s the thought experiment take one material at one shell of atoms see what it does at another shell of Adam see how its properties change and the challenge for us as chemists and engineers my my two hats is to begin to understand how to choose just the right dimension so that we have the opportunity to optimize the properties that we’re going to exploit now those properties of tune ability and optical systems could have implications in areas that are relatively straightforward in terms of replacing certain types of optical systems dyes and other pieces one of the applications that is moved very quickly towards commercialization is using little pieces of semiconductor little quantum dots engineered by quantum confinement to replace relatively fragile organic dyes that are used in a huge number of important processes in medical diagnostics this is an image that shows some brightly colored components where the center of this cell which would be interrogated to understand perhaps follow some pathological process or just to understand a developmental issue in terms of scientific inquiry these systems that are red at the center are the semiconductor dots the green system that you see in this panel is a representation of the best-in-class organic dye that is used for the same purpose what you see as you go across in time is that the organic dye unfortunately it works wonderfully in a short time period but the it is not robust enough to stand up to the intense illumination for longer time periods the quantum dot systems these inorganic little rocks that have had their properties engineered to replace the system are much more robust and offer opportunities to look at much longer time dynamics and other processes that’s a pretty low-tech application really it means that you’ve taken some quantum physics and just made a better pigment out of it but it’s still valuable if we think about how even extending that that line of thought might go and the possibility that you can begin to engineer properties that go out into the near-infrared you can begin to make optical materials that are ideally suited for other types of investigations in the life sciences this happens to be an example of a use of imaging techniques with these quantum tuned particles that have been adjusted so that their emission falls just perfectly in a window in the infrared where your tissue has has stopped absorbing and water that surrounds the rest of much of the components your body hasn’t started absorbing it’s a window of transparency that allows you to reach deep inside the human body there are very few conventional dyes or other systems that allow you to access this particular spectral window and so in this particular image the opportunity here is to to take the viewing of a lymph node a sentinel lymph node and to image it with this infrared dye to allow real-time navigation by a surgeon to find the extent of the lymph node and in more advanced systems to be able to put molecular tags that actually target particular structures this work is pushing towards clinical trials in areas

of helping to better identify the periphery of tumors to allow the surgeons to be able to find exactly what they need to take out and no more material this is extremely important in terms of minimizing the the on the level of trauma that is associated with a very important procedure in terms of the other surgical procedures and so these pieces are opportunities where all we’ve done is just take found a need where tunability and optical properties can replace some you know age-old organic dyes and other types of systems but if we expand our minds and start thinking about the the opportunities that are represented in the periodic table now for those again and taken basic chemistry you will either be cringing a little bit as you see a periodic table again are you you might respond the way I do with sort of a love and a wonder for how nature has organized its own building blocks but if we take each one of these components that make up the world that we live in we can begin to think about an analogy where these new nano crystal based systems which are not individual atoms but their collections of atoms where each one can be different that buy just the addition of one extra shell of atoms that means that each place on this periodic table has now been expanded by hundreds of possible new positions new sets of properties and combinations of properties these are the artificial atoms that we now work with to design materials okay and what’s even more exciting for us and for me in particular in my research is that we are thinking and and and following the vision where we can begin to put these building blocks back together so they not only have the properties in their isolated state but they actually start to talk to each other so I mentioned about the length scale of electrons and quantum mechanics and that scary term a wave function so we’re talking about objects that are small enough that not only are their quantum mechanical phenomena that dictate the internal properties or response to the system but that quantum mechanical interaction extends beyond the structure and and leaks out to talk to what’s next to it right this is what makes atoms the building blocks that transform into molecules because of that strong coupling we are defining a new chemistry that is based on organized Assemblies of tens of atoms hundreds of atoms thousands of atoms as a building block but still we’re accessing that quantum mechanical interaction to give us new emergent properties in these systems so whether you are interested personally in applications that might be as different as photovoltaics or new types of spin coater bowl transistor materials for low-cost electronics so thinking about quantum confined semiconductors or you’re excited about new Mac genetic phenomena MRI imaging agents separation technologies maybe something that relates to magnetic storage and and the future the ultimate limits of information storage which was part of what what I focus some of my expertise on in the past and the opportunity to think about taking long-established materials even things as simple as noble metals and coinage materials and giving them a whole new set of opportunities based on control of dimensionality okay so one of the things that is exciting people in this space if we can tune electronic properties we can to optical response then we have this chance to take on some very very hard problems one of the the ones that represents a global challenges photovoltaics and solar energy and how do we break some of the paradigms that have restricted us in terms of limitations on efficiency and the cost balance so there are many good technologies that people are thinking about and trying to work out to address this space what this area of work on nano scale materials has suddenly offered is an enormous new set of materials that are untested and untried largely to this point for these technologies but they have these attributes that they can produce new systems that are arbitrarily tunable in their optical response there are widely adjustable in their electronic properties they can be processed the way you would simple pigments or paints by printing processes and other things so this linkage to make systems of the type that I’ve shown here this is actually a thin film of these quantum dots it’s laying at the moment on a semiconductor surface there’s some external contacts these types of systems are showing just few percent efficiency in laboratory laboratory experiments now but the in performance improvements have been dramatic in them have been dramatic in the last few years and so these ultra low cost options that might give us a window on how to better optimize the interaction of light and convergent energy is inspiring a lot of activities in this space so I won’t take you into

you know I would lose everybody if I went into circuit diagrams and other things a few in the audience actually probably have had even greater depth that I might I would say it’s a very pen has such a wonderful breath and his expertise represented by you folks as well but what I would I would say is that in looking at some of these images we want to think about having available to us new sets of materials that are organized now where the natural length scale for consideration is the nanometer one billionth of a meter and in this case this is just an organized film but it happens to have two different constituent materials that are controlled in their size optimizing their properties and now they’re positioned just right with their neighbors so that their properties begin to interact okay and so this idea of taking the best of what electrical engineering did Electrical Engineering took different materials at macro scale and made junctions and connections and squeeze it down top-down making things smaller but getting new function because of the interaction the intersections between material systems we’re trying to take it from the bottom up and use chemistry to produce materials that inherently have all of that function they have the junctions the connections the optimizations of interaction but they’re going to organize themselves the way that natural processes crystallize things rather than relying on much more expensive tooling and techniques to organize them so if you were to look at what type of tooling was required to produce systems that have this type of tolerance in terms of position accuracy the standard deviation in terms of the size of the components it’s on it would be staggering it would it is it is greater in this case in terms of the precision in the other pieces then the best of semiconductor tooling today now semiconductor tooling has the ability to write arbitrary patterns it has many other advantages but we at Penn are thinking about where we can bring soft matter and assembly processes into a wonderful hybrid with micro electronic systems and so that kind of gives me a segue I’d like to give you a heads up to one of the more exciting initiatives currently on campus on campus there’s a there is a ground swell of interest from our students and from our faculty to try to address global challenges that revolve around issues of sustainability and so we have put together a group of about 50 faculty across the school of arts and sciences and the School of Engineering we have wonderful partners in working as well in terms of some of their efforts in sustainability and we’re beginning to work and actually was one of suggestions from the discussions yesterday some of the good questions but there are other links that we still need to make this is a very early it’s early in its operation but it is a powerful new engine for bringing together the talents of Penn to look at a whole area of energy technologies and so we have expertise now that is focused on these ideas about solution processable photovoltaics we have long-standing expertise in the life sciences that looks at photosynthesis and artificial photosynthesis we are taking nano scale materials and looking i’ll give you one quick example in a minute about direct heat to electric conversion concepts and i won’t take you through all these pieces but for those who have a passion in this area and they want to think about the future in terms of sustainability i think you may find some exciting things to to couple into if you have new parents there may be some opportunities here where your your your kids might be very excited about the research opportunities that come from this experience and actually that’s one of the pieces i would like to stress as well one of the wonderful things about penn as a faculty member is getting a chance to work with so many talented undergraduates in any given year i have i have about 10 undergraduate students across the two schools that come and do work with a high degree of Independence in terms of the choice and carry that out in my lab and that experience of working with the students and seeing how much they can contribute and how it energizes them going on in their future studies that’s a big part of what we offer in terms of providing that very fertile environment so again thank you for your support in the aspects of helping us to build that community and for those or the new admits in this area I would encourage you to think about across the spectrum of what Penn does get involved and get involved early in terms of these opportunities so I’ll just give you one example because it kind of highlights how we may be able to break the paradigm of performance in certain areas of energy conversion has been a long-standing challenge to come up with solid-state ways to convert thermal energy to electrical energy thermoelectrics and systems that have allowed us to do that have existed for literally a hundred years over and the performance enhancements in that area have been very very slow and that’s because we were working with a set of materials that nature had allowed us to access as stable compounds and other pieces over the last the last ten years

or so the performance in these systems and I’m sorry that’s a rather arcane sort of unit in here the this is the the efficiency coefficient basically we spent about sixty years where this number was just about one okay the mark of the figure of Merit for these systems in the last ten years with the enhancements of introduction of man structured system we’ve seen reports and now demonstrations that have have more than doubled the performance that conversion efficiency and what that means in reality is that we are approaching a stage in developing materials that could take the energy from heat use the properties of the semiconducting composite systems to allow you to produce energy that could capture some of the waste heat that is generated by many other processes industrial processes things is simple and actually now practical are demonstrations of these systems that have been attached to the exhaust systems or cars about seventy percent of the energy that goes into your car goes out as heat only thirty percent actually goes into true propulsion if you could capture just a little bit of the value of that waste heat that coming out of your out of your tailpipe you can make real contributions to the overall mileage efficiency or to the onboard electronic systems and so on so Mercedes BMW and others have already seized on this and these advances in materials to see this might be an opportunity for us to do better in terms of our components so there are many parameters to optimize to make these systems effective there there are issues in integration I know I’m very well a very respectful having been an industry for a long time that a really good idea in terms of some aspects still faces a lot of challenges to bring it all the way through to processing and stability in all these pieces but one of the nice things at Penn is the connection between the different schools allows you to contribute to the very fundamental science of generation of materials that had never existed before and a couple with people in aspects of engineering and the applied areas that do link to industry that do link to the ultimate customer so that you can really do the right things to try to Shepherd along a technology so this is an example of taking these artificial atoms building blocks of two different types organizing them together and I apologize this is kind of a slightly less pretty image because it was a large chunk it was sort of like about a centimeter across and you know we have to make really decent size quantities for some of the tests of these systems of the material that was used in this test would cover quite a few square meters of the devices that we were going to ultimately work on but in this system we were able to demonstrate that we could improve the important parameters for this system lowering thermal conductivity increasing electrical conductivity by three orders of magnitude relative to one important reference state of pure material or by two orders of magnitude coming from the other state so we still have to come up with processing there are a lot of other issues in these pieces but it is an example of where you’re not looking at improvements of performance in the dimensions that are a few percent they are very large leaps in terms of the properties of the system now how you optimize those is going to continue to be a challenge but it makes us very excited about how we might intersect a variety of energy related technologies and I’ll be careful because I really want to have more time for for questions in this piece I learned a lot from the other events in this component but I will I will ask you to think about for those who have taken any aspect of physics or been exposed to optics just a moment to to think also about how we can change dramatically are thinking about an area that in this case goes back hundreds of years if you think about classical optics and other other components right now the textbooks on optics are being rewritten they’re being rewritten the one of our assumptions in the past had been that no material could have what was referred to as a negative index of refraction we have the experience in our own lives of seeing perhaps a straw sitting in a in a glass of water and seeing refraction the bending of that straw so classical optics de tribes that very well but suddenly if you were to see that straw bending back in the opposite direction you’d be a little mystified about you know what was happening in that system well that would mean that you had basically immersed it in a material that had a negative index of refraction it had bent the light back in in the in ways that previously we thought had violated fundamental laws we’ve now learned that it doesn’t actually violate any fundamental laws it’s just the fact that materials that had these combinations of responses for their interaction with electromagnetic radiation they just hadn’t been discovered yet they hadn’t been designed yet and it’s because they weren’t at the right scales yet and so one of the things that is very exciting in this space is to realize that small metal particles have the possibility of

contributing to this design of new optical materials that can bend light in extreme ways okay the the other concept we mentioned quantum mechanics and quantum confinement now you’re also going to know about plasmonics so plasmonics is the phenomenon in which extremely small metal structures suddenly begin to develop distinct resonances with light because of the confinement of their electrons to the surface of that object basically the electrons that are at the surface of this little piece of metal just get tuned to the right frequency so that there be they’re able to resonantly interact with light and so what that does is it takes a long known material with a certain set of properties we thought we understood completely and now allows us to have a new tuning parameter to up to to change its properties and it turns out actually that this interaction with light through the plasma gives this property of actually potentially helping to bend like back in the opposite direction what could that mean what could it mean if we had this breaking the paradigm in terms of traditional optics well Nader and data has been a leader he is one of pens contributors in electrical engineering fantastic a champion for this area of plasmonics and nanophotonics and other pieces and so one of the areas that he’s looked at really does sound like science fiction for those who are a little bit more geeky in the audience like myself perhaps you think about cloaking devices harkening back to the best episodes of Star Trek or something like that and you know we went through so much of our lives thinking that that these are really crazy concepts right but actually cloaking the ability to bend light entirely around an object and reimage what is on the opposite side that now has been shown to be true in principle at many wavelengths at microwave frequencies nadir has been a leader in designing systems that can actually take an object and find ways to allow light to bend completely around that object so that it does not impede the transport of of those photons and therefore the object becomes completely invisible now you can imagine that he is well supported and and there’s a lot of interest in the military in some of these areas and the the opportunities for stealth and other technologies are certainly very important ones but what it really means for us is now we’re able to bend light at extreme angles over very small distances and it opens the possibility of doing nano scale routing of light much smaller than the natural wavelength of light orders of magnitude smaller and it opens a new possibility in the energy frontier that we mentioned some of the ideas about conversion of solar energy to usable energy electrical energy and so on have been limited by the fact that there are no practical means to concentrate like to begin to harvest the benefits to harvest light with the benefits of nonlinear processes things that only happen at extremely heightened intensities and so some of the concepts here in developing systems that can begin to concentrate life much smaller than its natural wave length and to develop imaging optics that aren’t limited by again for those in physics or had this exposure there was this term diffraction limit that was the classical dimension where you couldn’t make light any smaller because it just wanted to be classically quantum mechanically dispersed over that area so what it turns out is that these systems could allow us to make what I refer to as perfect lenses to actually take light and focus it to any arbitrary intensity and that can radically change what we might do with the conversion possibilities in energy alright so we’re building with different compositions we’re building with new sets of geometries and shapes and this is opening up a lot of exciting opportunities for applications it’s also opening up many exciting opportunities in terms of the the potential responsibility for understanding how these materials will work in the environment and full life cycle analysis and other pieces alright I would like you know our class is now taking you through several major changes in how we think about the physical world right and it’s it’s a wonderful opportunity to turn over to to questions and begin to start an exchange that I hope will continue through to the end of the program in terms of of us learning from the folks here in and their interest so with that I will thank you for your attention and I will invite any questions or comments on what what is a tough subjected to to chemistry and then

the materials engineering tough subject to broach it a Sunday afternoon I’ll answer one question which way I might otherwise get from the audience which is what takes us to the next level in terms of nano science and technology and so we have underway at this time the plan to transform our infrastructure to contribute in this area this is the space on the corner of 33rd and walnuts there’s a parking lot and and a small structure in the back here you may have seen in the in the lobby some of the visionary plans of how the singing center for nanotechnology may be positioned is a world-class facility that will allow us to take pen strengths in soft matter the life sciences intersect those with the best of techniques and fabrication and integration it will be the home for world-class tools and the draw for world-class talent that we’re going to need to be competitive in the next generation of science and so I would invite you back to penn at any time but i hope that you will be able to come back see the progress in this effort which is a multi Skua is a a joint effort between SAS and CS but it represents one of the real quantum leaps that we are making in terms of our ability to compete at the highest level in in this area so again thank you Amy for the opportunity and I’ll take it yes the question is when if ever will fuel cells be efficient and practical and can you give some examples so it’s an excellent question so there’s important work that’s that’s going on in many different types of fuel cells some excellent work actually have pens some leading work in in high-temperature solid oxide based fuel cells that provides one of our cores so those systems can be competitive with other utility-scale generation schemes however they don’t have the benefit of the extremely long history of testing and reliability so reliability in the utility industry is everything no one will forgive you if your power goes out right and so it’s a very conservative industry so there the technology is maturing but but it’s an issue of just really making it bulletproof at the larger scale one of the other pieces there are some very exciting developments in terms of new polymeric materials for improved transport for low weight fuel cells and the and I think you’ll see a lot of changes in the next probably five years or so partly because consumer electronics and some other technologies microscale fuel cells are really making their way into the marketplace and beginning to get attention so we have scientific advances that are being stimulated from multiple markets rather than just one that had been the previous driver so exciting things are happening fuel cell efficiencies be sixty percent or more depending on the design and the ability to recover so those are really something that has to be part of the mix in terms of how we think about our energy future thank you for the question yeah will you please elaborate on the use of nanotechnology in oncology oh absolutely so actually that’s one of the beneficiary so in oncology there are tremendous opportunities both in Diagnostics but also in therapeutic applications drug delivery applications other pieces so we’ve been thrilled I’ve been thrilled with my move to Penn because of the strength of the medical school we actually have active programs now that link us to researchers in ovarian cancer and we’re looking at magnetic based nanoscale therapies for ovarian cancer both to enhance detection but actually more importantly to provide an opportunity for remote excitation to to better better allow some hyper thermal treatments so using RF if you want to think about putting if you’ve ever put a fork in a microwave accidentally you can you can appreciate how nano scale little pieces of metal with the right design in the right resonance might allow you to locally heat something that’s targeted we also work with folks using the optical properties of some of the systems we make to target the the possibilities in photodynamic therapy that’s largely targeting mesothelioma and a number of lung cancer related phenomena but the track the challenges are great but I appreciate the question because nanotechnology is so broad and it’s used really across such a large range it’s very hard to get a sense of what it actually means really it just means all technology being pushed down to the precision that approaches atomic precision so thank you oh when could you describe how you merge the college student and the graduate student into your research projects who else is involved what professional researchers and then how do you coordinate or do you coordinate with industrial research and other universities research so science is inherently collaborative across all

boundaries and actually one of the things that is wonderful about being at Penn with its strengths is we become high value partners to other very strong institutions so we have a lot of links that that bring that piece together but they happen without any particular plan it really is a grassroots sort of connections that are made there the question about how we integrate researchers I really like that because it’s one of the wonderful things about the experience of putting graduate students and undergraduates together to to work in the laboratory that has been so rewarding for me the undergraduates bring the strengths of the of their experience at Penn often they can contribute that to graduate students that could be coming from anywhere in the world they contribute in many ways in terms of each learning from each other but again it’s not very structured it really is that students come in they have an interest we have expertise and capabilities we show them a range of areas they could contribute to there’s always so many more projects that you’d like to work on that you can possibly have the resources for so there’s really no limitation in terms of providing a buffet and they can sort of choose a little bit of what they like in their experience so it’s a good question because bringing people in and doing it effectively with good mentoring is an important part of Penn success but there isn’t really a rigid formula that any any group might sort of adhere to to allow that to happen thank you does nanotechnology have application to large scale things like construction or aerospace building absolutely that kind of thing you know actually it’s a great question because often we think about nanotechnology that really comes out of the lambs that we’re thinking about the ultimate limits of micro electronics miniaturization other pieces but there’s this whole other stream of nanotechnology which is actually better aligned with the bulk chemical producers of the world for them the idea of producing literally I have people that come to me and they want to produce you know railroad cars full of them types of materials that we do is a huge leap and we’re trying to work with people in chemical engineering other things to help to make that happen but there is there are techniques that are scalable for the production of these materials that allow you to make them at the scale that that you would think of for many other construction materials things that coat surfaces to allow for ample self cleaning surfaces on Windows with nanoscale coatings are currently commercial systems that things that help to remediate pollution air pollution by thin coatings on other systems actually part of what makes the be the b-2 stealth bomber function is actually nanoscale materials and combinations that we’ve talked about that is the stealth coating of those systems early generations of them were a little environmentally sensitive but actually it is quite reasonable to think of these advances at the laboratory scale translating to become one more part of our folk materials production and our construction opportunities is actually a very hot topic thank you for that