The Truth About Biofuels in America

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The Truth About Biofuels in America

>> ANDERSON: All right We’ll go ahead and get started I sure appreciate everybody coming out for this I have to admit this is a pretty interesting experience I’m a little bit technically challenged even though I have a web based business and everything I have some trusty people that surround me that help me with a lot of this but I obviously am well aware of Google and–and use it quite extensively and–and a couple of years ago my cousin who’s with me today and handles all my website stuff He says, “There’s this new thing that’s, you know, starting to catch on and we really need to start riding the wave.” He’s like, “it’s called YouTube.” And I like, “What are you talking about?” And he’s like and he explains it all to me He’s like, “We need to start doing, little technical videos and put it on YouTube We can reach a bunch of people.” And at the time I forget how long ago it was but it was pretty–pretty obscure and a lot of people didn’t know about it, and I have to say is it was one of the better moves we made because one of the things that we start getting–working with alternative technologies and things, the internet really has made a lot of stuff possible that 20, 30 years ago was stuck in people’s garages and nobody could really network and figure this stuff out So, you know, whether–I’m sure a lot of you are aware of–of the impact that your work here has but I’ve seen it personally in the alternative fuels world, were the internet and things like Google and YouTube really have created a path So, you know, you’re really involved in a lot of cutting edge stuff and hats off to you So, I wanted to talk a little bit about truth about Biofuels in America And the reason I used that title is because there’s a lot of misinformation out there There’s a lot of propaganda and fluff out there, and what I want to do today is, possibly shed some light on some of the–the–the fluff and some of the misinformation and kind of cut to the chase on–on what some of these technologies and options really are And have a discussion about some of the viable options that are out there And some of the options that are being presented as viable and, you know, really look and–taking a hard look at them To give you a little bit of background about who I am and why I–why I’m supposedly qualified to talk on this, I grew up in a little–small town in Alaska and I had one grandfather who’s a rancher, the other grandfather was commercial fisherman And my father was land surveyor and a bush pilot So growing up in this small town in the wilds of Alaska and everything you kind of, by nature, you kind of learn to be self-reliant and to realize that you can’t always go down to the corner drugstore and buy what you need If you are on the fishing boat and something breaks, you either have to do without it, or you have to fabricate something that will work or fix what broke and the same with, you know, being on a ranch in Alaska and everything and surveying out in the bush And so grew up with people around me that really taught me how to think outside of the box, and the necessity of being able to do it for yourself And unfortunately when it comes to alternative fuels and alternative energy and things like that, because of a lot of misinformation out there, we really have to take the responsibility of finding what these technologies are Really getting to the bottom of them by ourselves because unfortunately we can’t believe everything we read on the internet And there’s a lot of misinformation out there But with a little bit of knowledge and the right questions, each one of you can figure out what’s going to work for you and what’s going to compliment your lifestyle and allow even if it’s in a small way to some how lessen your dependence on fossil fuels Right around the 1999, I decided to move from Alaska and moved my family down to Southern Missouri We bought a farm down there and wanted to start getting back a little bit close to family A lot of family moved out of Alaska And I heard this reference, somebody was talking about how you can make diesel fuel out of vegetable oil And when I first heard this I thought that’s a–that’s a really brilliant concept, you know It’s a renewable resource and it’s not something we’re pumping out of the ground but I never did get very much information on it right at the time, and it just kind of stuck in the back of my mind and later I started reading and finding out little bit more about biodiesel And this process of taking new vegetable oil or waste vegetable oil and creating it into diesel Growing up in Alaska on the fishing boats everything is diesel My grandfather was really into fuel efficient cars and so grandma was always driving a diesel

Mercedes and he had a diesel VW And so I kind of grew up with this culture of fuel efficiency and conservation and everything And so when I heard about this concept to taking a waste product and making into fuel it really intrigued me And I did some research on the subject and found out about biodiesel a little bit And got all my chemicals together and I was going to play chemist in brew up a pot of this biodiesel and realized that I really didn’t know what I was doing And So I set it back on the shelf and I got to reading a little bit more about the concept of straight vegetable oil And when you’re looking at using vegetable oil in a modern diesel engine the main thing that you have to overcome is viscosity or how thick it is And so instead of using of chemicals to go overcome that viscosity, you can also do it by using heat Everybody’s fried something on the stove; you put in the–put the oil in the stove heat it up it gets real liquid and runny And so I started to venture down that road and built this crude little contraption that I put on my old Toyota diesel truck and I went to local Chinese restaurant and got some oil and filtered out the chicken strips and the small mammals and whatever else was swimming around in there, and poured it into my truck and flipped the switch and was waiting for it to blow up and it just keep running And so that was kind of the start–at the beginning there was no–and we referred to this as SVO or straight vegetable oil versus biodiesel There really was no SVO industry There was one or two people that were dabbling on with it And you can get on the internet and find some people that are kind of talking about it but, you know, very few people had actually done it And by going through this experience and all the trial and error I realized that maybe some of my experience would be valuable to others that wanted to break out of the petroleum–the clutches of petroleum And so I decided to put together a little do-it-yourself kit and put it on the internet and see what happens So during the early years I referred to it as our model T kits, you know It was–we were just taking off the shelf components and forcing them into service And I was working out of my garage and we, you know, had some early success and everything, and really started to get in to this and realized that there’s a lot of people out there that realized that petroleum wasn’t working too hot for us and they wanted to do something else And so in the early days we did a lot of trial and error And like the saying goes, good judgment comes from experience and experience comes from poor judgment And so there was a lot of trial and error but it worked and we kept growing And now we’ve–we’ve come up with some technology that is–been developed specifically for the SVO industry And as we gain more experience and instead taking of-the-shelf components we can–we can actually design stuff that work specifically for our application We’ll get more into the details of straight vegetable oil, a little bit later And I’m going to go through and just highlight some of the alternative fuels and alternative transportations that are talked about today And we’ll go through and just highlight a few of those, and then what I’d like to do is open it up to questions and just have the rest of the discussion be question driven Hydrogen fuel cells Interesting enough we don’t hear a whole lot about that anymore like we did three or four years ago Three or four years ago, state of the union address and everything, that’s all we heard about, was hydrogen fuel cells And this is a great little piece of–and you got to remember that I’m by nature a conspiracy theorist, and believe everybody is out to get us and all that stuff So you know free legal advice is worth what you pay for but I’ll go ahead and give you the version according to Anderson, of what I think is going on And like I said, I’ve been in the alternative fuels industry and seen a lot of the stuff that goes on I’ve gotten a few threatening phone calls from a few different parties that, you know, I better join the club and get the secret decoder pen and let them help me otherwise I might, you know, end up in jail or worse And, you know, some of that stuff does go on but generally they’re doing that because they really don’t have a leg to stand on Anyway hydrogen fuel cells A lot of people got excited about hydrogen because they think, well, you know, you take–there’s hydrogen in water, you use electrolysis and separate the hydrogen and the oxygen and you got nothing but clean exhaust coming out And that’s wonderful that’s all get behind hydrogen fuel cells

And the reality is the hydrogen fuel cells, you can extract hydrogen from water but when you do that it’s more of a power storage medium because the only way that you can get the hydrogen out is if you put electricity in And unfortunately it’s not really an efficient process And the dirty little secret is, is that when they’re giving the state of the union address and talking about, you know, on the news about new hydrogen fuel cell technology they weren’t talking about electrolysis, they were talking about extracting the hydrogen from propane or natural gas And so here we have something that still relies on fossil fuels Now granted the exhaust was cleaner but when you looked at the cost of the technology and that we’re still tied to fossil fuels it wasn’t really as sexy as they were making it out to be It really wasn’t the answer thinking, well we got a whole ocean full water, there’s all the fuel we need And so that’s kind of an example of a technology that the powers that be, really got behind and were promoting and the reality was, that it was–it really isn’t viable at this stage Now, does that mean we stop researching hydrogen? Heavens no Because there’s so many different things that are discovered everyday, and there might be some discovered next week that might make it a viable solution But at the stage that it’s at now, and the way that they were really planning on doing it, in my mind it really didn’t make a lot of sense because we’re still kind of business as usual I’ve got a theory and that is that, if high level government officials are promoting a certain alternative fuel run, because what it is, is it’s not really a viable solution and that’s why they’re behind They get behind stuff that they know really won’t affect their long-term goals of selling petroleum And I know that sounds cynical but if we had several hours I could tell you quite a few stories that really bring that home but unfortunately that’s pretty much what’s going on If it’s–if it’s a solution that they’re promoting and saying, “Hey this is latest and greatest.” It means that there’s some really big problems with long-term viability, and that’s why they’re promoting it, is because they can get behind it and it looks like they’re really, you know, promoting something that’s great And they run it on CNN, you know, for a week and everybody gets excited and goes out and votes for the guy who’s talking the most about, you know, some new technology And the reality is nothing really happens So that’s hydrogen Lets move on, hybrid electric vehicles Interesting story when we flew in to California last week, flew into San Jose As everybody probably heard the actress Daryl Hannah, is really and Willie Nelson, they’re all into biodiesel and biofuels And we recently did a–did a conversion for Daryl Hannah and had to go do some tweaking on her car down in Malibu and so we had to rent a car and we get in and I had–I had reserved a, you know, a small compact and everything because I knew we had a ways to go and rumor has it gasoline is a little bit higher here in California And so we get there and immediately they said, you know, well you’re going to be paying 114 bucks for these five days but for a $130 we can get you in an SUV That was their sales pitch and everything And I said, you know, I said, that’s great and all, I said, but we got a ways to drive and I said I think rather have the smaller car so we can get better fuel economy And the guy is like, “Oh, well you want fuel economy?” oh my God And he’s like, “Well for that same $130 for the five days you can have this Toyota hybrid.” I said, “Okay Well you know that sounds cool We’ll take it.” But it’s interesting that people’s first thought is, let’s get into the SUV, let’s get into the SUV And, so anyway we got a Toyota hybrid and we’ve been able to put almost a thousand miles on it So it’s been really interesting to get to use that into to really see what it can do I have test driven hybrids in the past and, you know, in certain situations they really shine, in certain situations they’re a little bit over hyped but, you know, going down to Malibu and back and riding–driving the pacific coast highway, and not really paying attention to babying it too much, and we’ve averaged 46.5 miles per gallon Which compared to the other vehicle that we would have, you know, even the smaller car would have gotten maybe 25, 30 if we were lucky So it really wasn’t that bad of a deal And, you know, as we–you know the hydrogen fuel cells isn’t really anything that you’re average Joe can get their hands on, but obviously hybrid cars and up and coming, some electric vehicles are something that–are some options, and here on out we’ll talk about some options

that actually are within our grasp and we need to analyze and see, is this going to fit my lifestyle? And this is something that I really want to stress to everybody is that, do your homework You know, if it takes–if you think that a hybrid is going to fit your lifestyle and the way that you drive and commute everything, I’d encourage you go out and rent one for a week, you know They’re only about 130 bucks for the week And just really drive around and see what kind of fuel economy you’re going to get I mean, in certain situations they really shine, certain situations they’re not so great but, you know, any technology that you’re looking at in anyway that you’re looking to lessen your dependence on foreign oil Really spend some time and do your homework and don’t just jump into it There is a lot of information on the internet There’s a lot of misinformation but there are people out there–and generally if you put enough time in, you can sift through the misinformation and the information, and get some good hard data on the technology that you’re looking at You know, I like I said, we’ve spent the last few days driving a hybrid and it definitely, you know, has gotten a lot better fuel economy than, you know, a car with just the regular gasoline engine but at 46 miles per gallon you got, you know, extra money into the initial purchase of the car There are other vehicles out there for example, the Volkswagen TDI that will get 45 to 50 all the time without the hybrid drive One of the things that really frustrates me is, when I travel around the world and I go these other countries they have diesel electric hybrids Now that’s something that I can really sink in my teeth into because a diesel electric hybrid about the size of a Toyota Prius running on waste vegetable oil You’d pretty much eliminate your use of foreign oil and you’d be getting probably close to 90 to 100 miles per gallon And so there some politics on why we don’t have a lot of fuel efficient diesels in this country The reality is that the technology exists for the hundred-mile an hour car right now It’s there, it’s accessible The problem is that they’re prohibited from importing that stuff into this country For the expressed reason, is that they will last too long and they won’t burn any fuel One of the things that really–like I said when I go overseas, I see all of this marvelous technology that they’re using over there, and over here we have the politicians, you know, signing some bill that’s going to mandate 35 miles per gallon And they’ve got cars, you know, in Europe and Japan that will get a solid 80 miles per gallon right now And meet every crash test that we have, but they will not let them import them into this country, so >> Do they meet the emissions test? >> ANDERSON: Yes, they do They meet the emissions test In fact the European emission standards are more stringent than ours here, and they meet the emissions hands down And especially when you look at the overall life cycle of the vehicle and how much fuel it’s going to be burning And so, you know, these are things we got to look at Where, you know–how much does it cost to produce that vehicle? Where’s the energy coming–on electric vehicles one of the things that a lot of people think, well I can just plug it into the wall and I can drive and I am mot using any fossil fuels but they don’t realize that we’ve got a coal plant somewhere, digging out coal and then, you know, got to transport that to the power generation plant and then you look at the laws of thermodynamics and the amount of energy that actually makes it to that plug, if I remember rightly, is somewhere around 28% of the coal–the energy out of that coal actually makes it into the energy in your home or into you vehicle, okay So you’ve got over 70% of the energy in the coal plant is used to just keep the whole thing up and moving And you’ve got, you know, power loss through high transmission lines and everything So this is one of those areas where like I said, you really got to do the homework and figure out, what’s the whole life cycle this technology And if I buy an electric car, okay Where’s my electricity coming from? A lot of electric coops you can–you can pay a little bit higher price and be guaranteed that–whatever electricity used is going to be bought from a renewable resource If you do something like that and do you homework on that then you can sleep well at night, knowing that you’re not really participating in the dirty technology but if you an electric vehicle and all your power is coming from a coal plant somewhere, and when you calculate all the losses and everything you’re using–you know you’re polluting twice as much as than

if you would have just driven a gasoline car You know you might sleep well at night as long as you don’t dig too deep and find out what’s really going on And so this is one of those areas where you need to realize where the electricity is coming from All right, compressed air cars This is fairly new There have been some developments recently in–in some fairly small air engines that are very efficient because they’re running on air There’s not–there’s not–a lot of the mechanical energy isn’t lost in heat but there again we have to look at, where is that compressed air coming room? You know, how–the laws of thermodynamics do not let you create nor destroy energy You know, you can’t really get anything for free, and that energy has to be developed from some source And so we need to analyze, all right If we are going to look at something like a compressed air car, that’s great It’s going down the road with compressed air but what kind of energy did we put in to compressing that air because that energy to move you down the road has to come from somewhere But this is a fairly new technology that I anticipate that we’re going to see quite a bit more of Ethanol, here’s–here’s a–here’s kind of a black eye on the alternative fuels world The reality is that it takes about three gallons of petroleum to produce one gallon of ethanol and that’s not even talking about the waste water it produces And when we talk about this, we’re not talking about cellulosic ethanol which is definitely better but not quite there yet But what we’re doing in this country right now with corn ethanol is pretty much a disaster It takes–it takes a lot of petroleum to grow that corn and when you look at the numbers is–we’re spending about three gallons of petroleum to produce one gallon of ethanol And so you don’t have to be a mathematician to figure out that we’re heading in the wrong direction I am not saying that we need to scrap, but places like Brazil they’ve done a lot better with some sugar cane and sugar beets, but also you’ve got to look at the impact, the amount of force that they’re clear cutting to put in those plantations And so everything has a ripple effect and there’s no one technology that has, you know, all goods and no bads You got to look at everything and look at the life cycle of the fuel or the technology that you’re looking at and realize where it’s coming from and where it’s going? And in this country right now with corn based ethanol, it’s pretty much politically charged, and there’s a lot of big lobbyists out there for the–for the corn industry that have gotten stuff pushed through and they’re not hanging on to it You know that now that the truth is coming out, you can see that there’s not a lot of support for it, and it’s kind of–kind of dying out And you know ultimately the farmer is going to be the one, again, left holding the bag Anytime that the government, or any entity will put a lot of subsidies into a technology to take it public–I’m not talking about research, I mean obviously there’s need to research done But when they take it to the public and try to present this there’s viable alternative, and the reality is that it’s heavily subsidized, pretty soon–that can’t go on forever, so pretty soon the carpet gets yanked out from under people and it’s the people like the farmers that are left hold on the bag because they’ve changed their whole operations And so I’ve had people argue, well, you know, of course we’ve got a support ethanol because we’ve got to care of the American farmer But you can take care of the American farmer on something that’s based on a lie And so there again, we got to cut through the emotions sometimes and really look at what’s happening and look at history and look in some of the catastrophic effects of some of these things throughout history, have done Biodiesel I talked a little bit about biodiesel before and the next one we have is straight vegetable oil which is what I’ve chosen to devote my life’s work to Biodiesel is where you take plant oils, it could from peanuts, sunflowers, rapeseed, olive oil, any kind of plant oil And it goes through process called transesterification, which is a really fancy word for taking some household lye and some ethanol and mixing it up together and it goes through a chemical reaction and the it basically drops all the real thick stuff out of the oil and it thins the oil chemically Biodiesel is used fairly extensively in the US The thing about biodiesel is it can be mixed in any proportion with a regular petroleum diesel And in low proportions it really doesn’t have any affect on the cold weather abilities and

so it’s a fuel that can be assimilated into our current distribution structure without too much trouble There’s a lot of, you know–here we’ve got a commercial biodisel plant, here we’ve got–there’s several websites out there where you can buy some home brew kits, that are a little more professionally put together And then you’ve got, you know, Rube Goldberg in his garage here, and people brewing their own You notice the respirators on these guys I’ve got a few friends that do biodiesel that are missing their eyebrows and unfortunately there have been a few people that, through some explosions, have lost their life over the last few years doing some home brew biodiesel projects So if done right, biodiesel is an option for the–for the do-it-yourselfer, but you are dealing with some fairly caustic chemicals and you do need to be careful if you start to get in to biodiesel production From a home brewer stand point, if it’s something that you decide you want to do in your garage or your backyard, like I said, you’re going to need methanol, you’re going to need a little bit of lye–little regular household lye, sodium hydroxide, I think is the official name for it But somebody correct me on that if I’m wrong But anyway you–it takes–it takes about 24 hours to brew up and batch, and wash it and everything It’s a little bit labor intensive and when you factor in your cost, some I’ve heard numbers as low as 75 cents per gallon and as high as $2 per gallon What it’s going to cost you to brew that biodiesel but when you consider close to $4 at the pump, it can be viable option for people One thing about biodiesel is that you don’t have to modify the vehicle hardly at all, especially the newer ones and it can go just right in your tank and you can you put a tank petroleum diesel in there right after you have the biodiesel and vice versa >> What kind of waste do we get? >> [INDISTINCT] >> What kind of waste do we get? >> ANDERSON: Waste with biodiesel, you’re looking at about 20 to 25% glycerin in content and so you–the volume if you do a 100-gallon batch of biodiesel you’re going to have 20 to 25 gallons of glycerin You can make a lot of soap with it or figure out how to dispose of it Here’s some shots of me in my local neighborhood fish fry place gathering some waste vegetable oil And as you can see the stuff looks good enough to eat We–generally I’ve two restaurants that are fairly close to my house and I live in fairly rural Missouri And I can get anywhere from 400 to 500 gallons a month And I just take trailer over there and I bulk gather it A lot of people–a lot of our customers that live in small, you know, apartments or something, they’ll hook up with, you know, little cafĂ© or something Just get a little five gallon jug and they’ll take that home once a week And it really depends on your usage You can get thousands of gallons or you can get, you know five or ten gallons And what we do with straight vegetable oil is we use the waste vegetable oil that the restaurants throw away Most of the places of the restaurants usually will have to pay to get rid of this oil and so if you go in there and make friends with them and talk to them, they’re usually more than happy to support your little alternative fuel habit because it saves them and they can give you fuel for free And so what you have invested is a little bit of time but generally speaking once you get set up you’ll spend no more time dealing with your straight vegetable oil then you would if you had to stop at the–at the gas station So this isn’t for everybody Obviously, you see I’ve got a big set up there Like I said I gather probably over 1000 gallons a month for my business and for my personal use, and so that’s fairly extensive But if you think about that 1000 gallons at four bucks a gallon, you know, that’s four grand a month that I can go out and literally in about an afternoon, get that amount of oil So financially it makes a lot of sense On of the great things about straight vegetable oil is there is no chemical modifications All right We can probably stop that There’s no chemical modifications that have to happen to the oil You got to filter out again all the bumpy chunks and the–and the dirt and from there on it’s a matter of putting it into your vehicle that has a conversion system that’s been put on it What the conversion system consists of in nut a shell is we put on a parallel auxiliary heated fuel system And so we don’t really mess with the stock fuel system on there but we put in heated tank, heated fuel lines, headed filters with a switching valve, so we can go between the

two fuels We start the vehicle up on regular petroleum diesel once the engine’s up to temperature we flip on switch on the dash and then it switches over to the auxiliary fuel system which has the vegetable oil in it and you’re running on 100% recycled vegetable oil And this–I’ve got some other slides I’m going to probably stop and in the interest of time and open it up to questions but as you can imagine this is kind of pretty obscure in the alternative fuels world A lot of powers that be especially in the biodiesel world don’t really like what we’re doing because they don’t want people to get the word out that you don’t really have to go through the transesterification process I’m definitely not anti-biodiesel, it definitely has a place biodiesel–the big biodiesel lobby tends to be a little bit anti-SVO because, you know, we’re not playing the game by their rules Little by little we are gaining some footholds I think there’s about five states now that have passed exemption laws I helped write some legislation that we got passed in Arkansas that totally exempts waste vegetable oil in its pure form as a fuel So it’s non-taxed and it’s got a full exemption So there’s definitely some end roads being made legally because it’s really a no man’s land Depending on who you talk to, they say there’s no problem with it and some people say, you can’t do that, you know, they haven’t given you permission But little by little the states are stepping up And interesting enough there’s quite a few legislatures around the country and there’s different state legislatures that actually burn vegetable oil and–or get a little backdoor legislation into–to kind of open the playing field and just say hey look, you know, we’ll leave you alone keep doing this That’s a general overview Is straight vegetable the answer? No Is ethanol the answer? No Is hybrid car–is the answer? No None of these technologies, or the technology that might be thought up next week or something, none of these things are the one answer It’s going to take a little bit of everything I think We don’t have too many alternative fuels at this stage There’s a lot of great ideas that are hatched in people’s garages throughout time and a lot of them because of lack of networking have kind of died Some of them have been killed, some of them have died, but it’s kind of a unique time in history because with the internet and a good old Google search now and then, you can network with people that have these ideas and–you know I’ve definitely benefited from being to able to literally go around the world and network with people that have some ideas And when we start to talk, we think of ways that we can reduce our dependency on foreign oil We know what doesn’t work in this country–going oversees for oil is not working so hot for us And so this is something that everybody can look at and realize that even though it’s something small possibly in your life that you can do something to change a little bit the amount of petroleum that you effectively use And straight vegetable oil is something that I found that–you know, there’s several billion gallons of waste vegetable produced in the US annually, it’s a disposal problem for a lot of restaurants, it’s something that I can do, and a lot of my customers can do that can totally take them out of the petroleum cycle Does ExxonMobil feel it? Absolutely not We’re just a bunch of kooks that are running around on French fry grease Do I feel it? Yes You know, in the last three years I drive a big old Ford Excursion, evil SUV, that gives cleaner emissions than a Toyota hybrid and I’ve saved $30,000 in fuel The rig didn’t cost me that much when I bought it three years ago So for me, it’s 100% difference for ExxonMobil, we’re not even a thorn in their side And so it’s little things like this–some of these unique and obscure ideas and technologies, that little by little can make difference And you know, some people I’ve talked to, they say well, you know, “Well if everybody does this there won’t be enough oil so I’m not doing it.” Well you know that maybe true but there’s about three billion gallons out there that’s thrown away in landfills every year Let’s soak that up, let’s use that That’s three billion gallons and we’re not importing from overseas And once that’s used up let’s go for something else But in the mean time there’s new technologies that are coming up You know algae oil for example is a really exciting thing because instead of getting, you know, a hundred gallons from an acre of soy beans of oil, they’re producing 50,000 gallons of algae oil on an acre every other week You know some of these technologies and–that compliment the biodiesel and the straight vegetable oil There’s a lot of neat stuff up there but we–people have got to learn to open their minds and realize that we don’t have to keep doing things the way that we’ve been doing

All right, go ahead and open it up for questions and a little discussion here >> Great stuff I’ve got actually a lot of questions but I think I’ll only ask, think I only ask one, especially considering the second one I forgot So the first one would be, and it’s the only one I’ll ask Basically you mentioned that your big Ford Excursion is more clean than a Toyota hybrid? >> ANDERSON: Yeah >> Basically How is that, can you a little bit about the >> ANDERSON: Sure >> …the emissions? >> ANDERSON: Sure >> Thanks >> ANDERSON: Well to start with, we don’t have to be chemist to realize that when you have a food product that’s, you know, Liquid Sunshine, basically that hasn’t been chemically modified that there’s not–there’s’ not a lot of nasty stuff like in petroleum For example sulfur dioxide is totally limited–there’s no–eliminated There is no sulfur in vegetable oil and so sulfur dioxide which is the leading contributor to acid rain is gone It’s not even an issue It’s a CO2 neutral fuel When that crop of soy beans or sunflowers or whatever are sitting there growing, it’s consuming CO2 Now when we burn it, it does give off some CO2 but it gives us off less CO2 that was consumed when the–when the crop was grown And so, you know, the problem we have with CO2 right now, it’s not that CO2 is bad, you know, it’s what plants thrive on and stuff like that, is that we’re dredging up CO2 from millions of years ago, and we’re put that into the atmosphere along with all the stuff that’s growing on the Earth’s surface right now And so this fuel is CO2 neutral and it’s oxygen rich fuel O2 will go up with your emissions, and your particulate will go down in the opacity test And so there’s been several emission tests One was done at an EPA lab in Colorado I think And across the board, straight vegetable oil beat up petroleum diesel and biodiesel Biodiesel is a lot cleaner on most cases NOX does go up with biodiesel over diesel, whereas with straight vegetable oil it goes down So across the board, it’s just a lot cleaner, there’s less particulates and, you know, it’s food There’s just a lot less nasty stuff coming out on your tail pipe Got another question here >> I was wondering if you felt that the dual tank system is necessary in warmer climates in line of the greater complexity versus the single tank system >> ANDERSON: Okay Let me give a little back ground on this question here He asks about a two tank system versus a single tank system Now, when I described how we work with straight vegetable oil, you have your petroleum side and you have your vegetable oil side and you switch between the two There is something out there that they–is referred to as a one tank system which is basically, you don’t have dual fuel system You’ve only got only one fuel system And you can put either diesel in it or you can out just vegetable oil in it, and you start it up on the vegetable oil and you–and you can run it all at the time on vegetable oil Unfortunately with a dual fuel or with single tank system, like you’re referring to that, your narrow of operation, your window of usability is narrowed down quite a bit and the main thing is–is that once that engine’s up to temperature, the oil is being heated enough just by the heat properties of the engine–the engine acts as a final heat exchanger, to heat up enough to have proper spray pattern and everything like that, but getting it from the rear tank, up to the engine compartment–if you’re running at 20 degrees that can be a serious problem unless you have a heated tank and heated fuel lines and heated fuel filter And so for–and then of course there’s certain engine families that don’t take well to single tanks So to answer your question a little more directly, in certain situations a single tank–and with certain engines, a single tank can be a viable situation Sometimes they’re more complex, sometimes they’re not You know, there’s a lot of ins and outs, and different ways you can do things And so if you are in a warm climate, have very good oil quality and the right engine then a single tank could be for you, but if you plan to travel very much and want to use to vegetable on any climate, then that just narrows your window of operation down considerably And if you clog a filter, or get a French fry stuck in your filter some, because you didn’t pre-filter well, you cold be sitting beside the road and you don’t have an auxiliary system to switch over to And so, you got to be on your toes a little bit more and you’ve got to really concentrate on where you’re going to be and the vehicle that you have, so >> Just a quick follow up

I use–I’m running a single tank and a 300D >> ANDERSON: Great >> In San Diego >> ANDERSON: Yeah >> With no problems but would you say the Mercedes engine is more well suited that? >> ANDERSON: Exactly The older Mercedes that you’ll find driving around the lot are pretty much bullet-proof You know there’s kind of a misquote out there that Rudolf Diesel designed the diesel engine to run on peanut oil And the reality is, he didn’t design it to run on peanut oil He designed the engine and experimented with many different fuels Coal dust was one of them, and it just about blew his head off And so he says, you know there’s got to be a different fuel that I can use that is not so volatile And the inventor if the diesel engine over a hundred years ago was using peanut oil, straight vegetable to run his engine with And so there’s actually–you know the history of using straight vegetable oil is kind of the original, you know biofuel It’s a very long history and the Mercedes engine is built, and over-built, and over-engineered, and it’s just a really fine piece of equipment, and it does have the capability to handle a single tank system a lot better than a lot of the newer vehicles >> So the issue here seems to come down to the CO2 emissions And we have plenty of carbohydrates we can convert into liquid fuels if we want But now we don’t have a good way dealing with the CO2 emissions We have, you know–if we wanted to convert coal into gasoline we could do it for, you know, hundreds of years, there are even bigger sources Now for the Achilles’ heel of the solutions you presented was that they–other than recycling waste, they all seem to generate more CO2 to than the status quo which is burning gasoline like that There’s a devastating study or a couple of studies which were published in science magazines this week which show that’s pretty much all uses of ethanol and biodesiels generate far more CO2 than they say So what is–what can we do? >> ANDERSON: Well education is the biggest thing because you’re correct, you know when you look at the life cycle of corn based ethanol it’s a disaster We are not gaining We’re definitely going behind >> You know in corn based–it’s not correct that corn based ethanol takes three gallons of fuel to generate one gallon of ethanol It’s actually slightly energy positive, but the CO2 impact is worse than gasoline >> ANDERSON: Well, it depends on who you talked to I’ve talked to professors at Cornell that have done some extensive research that have stated that And here’s another thing, you can find a study to base, anything that you want to–to prove any point that you want to And so, you know, it’s kind of pointless to, you know, say, well this scientist said this, this scientist said that We’ve got, you know There are some >> So there is no scientific truth, in other words? >> ANDERSON: Well, no there is But you got a wave through a lot of BS to get to it sometimes >> Yes >> ANDERSON: And so what can we do? I mean the first thing that we’ve got to do when we’re looking at this is conservation And that’s something that–no matter what you’re driving or what fuel you’re using, that needs to be the first tool we take out of our tool box is, how can I conserve? And you’ve got to look at things, you know, with straight vegetable oil, where you’re using the waste product, you know that’s kind of a no brainer, because that’s already there We’re trying to recycle something but as far as when we turn that, you know–go over that hill and now we’re growing oil-based crops and everything like that to harvest as fuel, these are things that we have to look at >> All of those things have negative worse than the CO2 impact for hundreds of years due to land use changes >> ANDERSON: Yeah, well You know and there’s going to be different camps And you know, I don’t have every single answer to every single fuel Kind of my overall theme is, is that we definitely can’t take things at face value We do need to dig a little bit deeper so, you know, the more–the more reports you read, and the more notes you make on this stuff and compare, you know, we might find that right now ethanol looks bad an biodiesel looks okay but in the future things might swap a little bit And so we’ve got to be vigilant and make sure that we don’t just take things at full face value And that we do a little bit of digging on our own because if you just listen to people and don’t do a little back up research, you can find somebody to support whatever idea they want to come with, so We’ve got another gentleman here that has a question Thank you >> Hi

It seems like the big problem with SVO is inconvenience An inconvenience from both your vehicle, you know supporting it, as well as the distribution means And it seems like, you know both of those are probably addressable I’m just sort of curios like, you know, is there any push or lobbying to get either both, you know, traditional petroleum distribution companies to help distribute SVO, or even someone like, you know, fast food chains to have a place >> ANDERSON: Sure >> …where in you can pull up, and pump up and then part two is, with respect to automobile manufacturers, you know, is there a push or any incentive, or a way to get people to make vehicles that either dual tank, or more amenable to >> ANDERSON: Yeah >> …single tank with heated, and that stuff >> ANDERSON: Very good questions First part of your question You know five years ago, we were just a bunch of kooks in our garage, and I mean we still kind of are, but we’ve been able to take this to a few levels that are, you know–have a lot of hope for example We have a branch office in Hokkaido, Japan and we were able to do some work and get a blanket exemption from the Japanese government for straight vegetable oil And a lot if the work that we do over there is for city government So we’re in charge of the waste collection and disposal And so there is a pretty good network towns and cities over there where they have centralized dump points for the restaurants, and those then in turn are used in the city vehicles In the United States here, there are several companies that are starting to spring up that are processing anywhere from 15,000 to 20,000 gallons a month and starting to deliver to some of out fleet customers And it’s slowly but surely going out of the single-end user and going up to into little bit of industry And so these are natural progression and steps as we have got a few years behind our belt and everything, and we people that are running businesses see the tremendous cost–savings that they can do by running straight vegetable oil, then they say but we can’t go to, you know, our local fish fry house and get all–you know we’re in the trucking business, we can’t do that And so there are some companies that are popping up that are starting to fill that need We actually worked on a project down in Phoenix, Arizona all the Carl’s Jr. restaurants there We did pretty a extensive fleet for them and they set up fueling stations at their restaurants, and so all the executives for Carl’s Jr. in the state of Arizona run around on their own French fry grease So little by little these things are being addressed and there’s companies that are seeing that need and filling that void We’re working on a couple of big projects that if I told you about it, I’d have to kill you But there are moves in that direction to take this into trucking companies and everything like that, and get a collection on a grand scale So that we can really make big dent where it matters And, see you second question was–oh, car manufactures We actually got in two years ago with general motors and was on a–we were in cross-country promotional tour called the go green tour I don’t think when they signed us up, they really realized the ramifications of what–of how abstract straight vegetable oil is But they were–they were pretty accommodating, and it was kind of cute and it made first some good PR for them for a little bit, but I really don’t see a push right now for any car manufacturers getting on board Unfortunately they’re a little bit tied too close to the petroleum companies and so, you know, they’ll kind of treat it as a cute little thing, as long as they don’t see any threat from it >> I–thank you for being the maverick you are >> ANDERSON: Thank you >> In terms of heavy equipment, let’s say buses that are driven by diesel fuel And this alternative fuel that you talk about, how well do they function in terms of reliability, in terms of noise and also mileage? And that would be for heavy equipments Say in, Caterpillar tractor >> ANDERSON: Sure >> …Detroit diesel, or >> ANDERSON: Excellent, yeah One of the great things about straight vegetable oil is although it contains a few SBT used than petroleum diesel because of the added lubricity and its burn characteristics we actually tend to notice slight gains in horse power and fuel economy So there’s not a lot of–you know, with ethanol you’ve got to–you take a pretty big hit in efficiency, but with the vegetable oil because of it’s density and it lubricity, it gives you just as much bang for your buck as diesel does, if not just a little bit more

And the added benefit is because it lubricates well the longevity of your engine is going to–you know, I don’t go around saying, “Hey, your engine is going to last forever if you, you know, run on vegetable oil.” but done right–and when I say done right, meaning that you have clean dry fuel The longevity of your engine is not going to go down at all And in some cases we’ve seen with older vehicles they’ve actually held on for a little bit longer because of the added lubrication And so we’ve done a lot of applications with big rigs, I guess I can go–I’ve got a few more slides here we’ll go through Here are some of the vehicles we’ve done; big semi trucks, my bus, motor homes, that right there was the truck that we did for the general motors tour, and you know the bigger they are, the better they like it, and the quicker your pay back Some of the big fleets that we do–we’ve got guys that are going through, you know, just unbelievable amounts of fuels and they actually can make their money back in a matter of a month or two and instead of, you know, for some end-users it may take them a year to make their initial investment back, so You had a question sir >> Yeah, you mentioned the three billion gallons a year I believe is the waste oil? >> ANDERSON: Well >> Approximately >> ANDERSON: That’s a hard number to pin down I’ve heard–some of the general numbers, and somebody’s going to Google this and then tell me I’m wrong, but–that’s good just send me email so I have the exact number But, the numbers that I’ve looked at for over the last year to–there’s somewhere between five to six billion gallons produced in the US annually And it’s roughly estimated that about half of that is not made–doesn’t make it into any recycled system at this point >> Well some of it’s in the food itself, right? You eat French fries they’re >> ANDERSON: Some of it is in the food–well, when I say–a lot of it, the stuff it is collected is put in animal foods and is put in cosmetics stuff and then a lot of the smaller places are just dumping it in the back forty and >> So my question was, what’s our daily usage of petroleum for transportation, it’s on the order of hundreds of billions? >> ANDERSON: Don’t ask me hard numbers like–no–I’ve–just shooting from the hip I think that, that represents less than 1% of our diesel consumption >> Oh, just a diesel >> ANDERSON: Yeah, just the diesel consumption So it’s not a huge number, but when we look at technologies like algae oil, and the huge numbers that they can bring in per acre and you don’t need, you know, arable land, you can do it in the dessert with seawater You know there’s a lot of Southern California that could fit that bill, you know And so there is some huge potential for growth there, but as far as just the waste vegetable oil, you know, you’re talking maybe around 1%, a little less >> So that’s–that would still a very large fleet, 1% of the US, trucks >> ANDERSON: Oh, well, several–yeah, it’s a start >> So you got–you got a big expansion, right >> ANDERSON: Yeah It’s, yeah >> But you’re not going to replace all gasoline >> ANDERSON: Not going to replace all diesel fuel at this point but, you knows, it’s–it’s definitely some–a place to start, so Any other questions? >> There is any difference in the vegetable that you use, I mean my question is connected to the fact that you were talking about the farmer and ethanol, I mean they can’t still use–you can still use the corn that they produce to create vegetable oil >> ANDERSON: Yeah it doesn’t matter what plant the oil is–well let me back me up, there’s–there’s one or two plant oils that don’t do too good in this One of them is linseed oil If that sounds familiar because it use in paint and it dries like that It’s got a really, it–it’ll polymerize very quickly That’s not one you want to use but nobody cooks with linseed oil So it’s not really a problem but as far the common oils that are used to cook with; peanut oil, olive oil, canola, whatever it all burns good And you can all mix them together and make, you know, pretty healthy concoction, so Yes, sir? >> So, you said today that people have to pay to have the vegetable oil removed as waste in many instances? >> ANDERSON: In most places, yeah There is a few markets around the country where the rendering companies will actually pay the restaurant, you know few penny’s per gallon but–and then there’s places were they don’t pay them, but they don’t charge But more often than not, the restaurants have to pay to dispose of it >> It seems like if there was usable energy in it or, you know, a reasonable amount that was an easily converted by, you know, normal processes that there would, you know, people who would be burning it in, you know larger reactors to of–you know, to do cogeneration and, you know, plants and stuff And that this would quickly become a valued commodity, right? It’s like if people were dumping gasoline out of the place >> ANDERSON: Well, we’re working as hard as we can But you know, and this is the thing, I mean to a lot of people that first learn about

this straight vegetable oil and stuff, they’re like, “Wow, this really makes sense How come everybody’s not doing this? How come other people aren’t doing it?” And, you know, unfortunately sometimes really good ideas take a little while to catch on I mean there is a huge ground swell of interest and growth in our industry and everything, but–and people like, you know, what’s the catch, you know but really there’s literally millions and millions of gallons sitting out behind restaurants and getting dumped in the landfill and everything Of a perfectly, you know, liquid burnable fuel that can be used in existing equipment, and we don’t really have to wait for new technology So, you know, sometimes it’s frustrating because you–you’re like, you know, how come people can’t see that, you know, even though it’s–it’s a small percentage, it’s a percentage and we could be doing something with this And my message is, is that if there’s something this obvious that we deal with everyday–everybody’s eating fried food everyday If there’s something this obvious, what else are we missing? Let’s open our eyes and realize that, you know, there’s all kinds of stuff we’re throwing out that we might be using for energy >> Do you know if anybody uses it for cogeneration today? >> ANDERSON: Oh, yeah You mean like electrical generation? >> Yeah Run it in a big diesel engine, connect to your plant and–you can probably save, you know, potential save a ridiculous amount of money >> ANDERSON: Yeah, I got–I’ve got a lot of customers that run generators with this, if they’re off the grind and stuff You know, generally speaking that metering states you’re not going to make enough money to offset your cost, but if you’re in a situation were you want to produce your own electricity it’s extremely cost effective, so >> I just wanted to speak your points about, you know, the cost of the reticulating electricity around, as an argument against electric vehicles Because I think the system that you’re describing with SVO is, you know, something that could work with, you know, electrical propulsion >> ANDERSON: Sure >> Like, you know, on a hybrid set up So they don’t necessarily have to be opposed But I just wanted to clarify that issue, because it’s an argument that’s been brought up I remember reading the–there’s a book called “Plug-in Hybrids” and it sort of sprung board off of the, “Who killed the electric car” thing It was a whole conspiracy theory around that >> ANDERSON: Yeah >> I guess the thing is that, yes there are lots of coal plants producing electricity but there’s also a number of hydro plants around in the states So it’s one of those things were if it suits locally for you to run an electric vehicle then, you know the economies might be right >> ANDERSON: You bet >> For example here, we’ve a got bunch of solar cells in on those card boards >> ANDERSON: Yeah >> …and electric leads hanging down and no one’s using them >> ANDERSON: Yeah–no, I didn’t want give the impression that I’m against electric cars because she, you know, she reiterates my point very well that you just need to look and see what your situation is And sometimes even though we many not be quite there yet, you got the chicken and the egg scenario We don’t have the renewable electricity quite yet, but we’ve got to develop the electric cars and get those more accepted before we can, you know, get the renewable energy And so I’m not opposed to technology just because at this point in time they’re–they haven’t quite made it over the hill And–but I think it’s very important to be informed of exactly where it’s coming from, so that we at least know what the rules to the game are >> Yeah, yes Because one of the other economies with electric propulsion is you’ve got all the fancy regenerative braking and >> ANDERSON: Yeah >> …all of that cool stuff, so >> ANDERSON: Yeah, there’s some amazing technologies out there and I, you know, I just look at the SVO stuff, and if we have the diesel hybrids in the states How–you know, we can marry those two up together and we could really be getting somewhere then And so, you know, I think all these things are important to not discount anyone of them right off the bat, but let’s make sure that we really analyze where they’re coming from, and know what the rules to game are, so that if they’re not quite there, we know which direction we need to head I think we’re officially out of time but I’ll be happy to stick around and talk to anybody if you got any more questions Thank you for coming