CSME Lecture Series: Fred Swanson

Just another WordPress site

CSME Lecture Series: Fred Swanson

the director for the Center for science and math education our center is placed between the College of Science in the College of Education we have four parts to our mission one is to prepare for science math k12 teachers a second is to enhance diversity within the scientific enterprise the third is to try to facilitate better science and math education at the undergraduate level and the fourth is to bring science into society part of what we do is about dissemination of all of this wonderful stuff and part of that is the Hugo Rossi lecture series this is the fourth of our akiko lecture series in honors Cuba Rossi who’s sitting right here and because this is a special lecture and also a very special day for Hugo Rossi is his birthday today happy birthday to you but it is also a great pleasure to introduce thread Swanson who is our visitor this week i’ll just mention that he’ll be giving a lecture today obviously and also tomorrow as part of the regular lecture series in the biology department and you’re all very welcome to join us there it’s actually a challenge to introduce Fred because he does not fit into any single category I first why don’t read for years as an eminent geologist and sort of honorary colleges that the HTM whose research bars in in Blue River corydon part of the core of the osu sort of resources and also part of the long-term ecological research group of sites that’s funded by the National Science Foundation but I really got to know Fred fest when he invited me with a number of other farce ecologists artists musicians and gossipers and humanists to camp out for two or three days right in the blast zone of Mount st. Helens the idea was to try that I have all of us collectively get an experience of what happens to this landscape what it meant in terms of science but perhaps more importantly what it meant to us as human beings and to share those ideas to share those thoughts together so i think really for me this example that experience exemplifies what I think the one I think of Fred Swanson first of all I think it exemplifies his connection and is doing a great science of great science in geology and ecology secondly that he’s very conscious and very disciplinary work and that’s why I invited a number of you here in the audience to come from different departments different colleges different ways knowing and thinking to hear what fred has to say thirdly fred is able to think about time and space at much larger scales and what the regular ecologist does so he thinks in terms of millennia he thinks in terms of landscapes very wonderful way that he will share with you Fred also thinks about dynamics about the way things change and I think that you’ll get an impression of this as he speaks and finally I think he thinks about building capacity for understanding and for communication so all of these things are not always found in the older science but Fred I think brings them with us today little bit of background fred was born in Delaware he went to college at university of pennsylvania in geology there he had a key experience of being able to go to a field station in Bermuda studying the organisms as well as a sedimentation that was going on there in the tropical waters he worked for the US Geological Survey in the West during college he got his PhD at the University of origin or again he encountered interdisciplinary work some geology ecology worked in the Galapagos but his actual thesis was on gravel movement and rivers and as he described this to be today we talked about 18 stones and placing that along good works and allowing the river to move that and then coming back and understanding over the river so here I see the rules connection to artists i think as he talked about this colored pebbles back in the early 1970s there was a wonderful project really a groundbreaking project for the international project and fred was deeply involved from the very beginning Jared Franklin and others whenever stars by at the HJ Andrews and he started thinking about it working with ecologists very deeply there was sort of an intra disciplinary team the heroes of ecology and biology Jerry Franklin Richard wearing since I know all of these folks were working together to try to understand the coniferous forest ecosystem in a very holistic way

Fred says that he worked on the aspects of death and Mets in that system landslides fire buzz big wooded streams and of course in 1980 a large element of disturbance what was that mount st Helens thank you so even if it weren’t West were outside the Pacific Northwest people are aware of that and so try became extremely involved in the very beginning in terms of trying to understand the processes in larger spatial and large temporal time scales in addition to this sort of nexus of forest ecology geophysical processes aquatic systems and aquatic processes he and his colleagues also became involved with involving the social forces that were present and very important at that time of the Spotted Owl issue was something that he and his colleagues worked with as well he emphasizes the need for capacity the need for storytelling and the need for time in our understanding landscapes of processes and that is what you will talk about this afternoon for us when I just mentioned that after friends talk there’s going to be a little reception outside here where the posters where the posters are going to be cleared out but there will be some cheese and fruit and crackers and so I hope you all to join us and i welcome you tried to share with you your ideas this campus has been very interesting today conversations really get a sense of some of the scope see some interesting areas of overlap possible future collaboration this is a picture of my home territory a piece of the old growth under growth forest the guillotine is experimental forest for services system of 80 experimental forests and ranges and one of the 25 long-term ecological research sites by the National Science Foundation beginning the science infrastructure has been important platform in which to engage arts and humanities with the science community also through the history of work and busting Elam’s for 33 years and 40 some years of environmental sciences ecosystem sciences andrews we’ve seen some things that have been very influential and initiating this program of collaboration environmental communities it’s been impressive Alex change has occurred ecological change but more major way social change it’s been impressive to see how important human values the public perceptions are and how we deal with ecosystems natural resources the natural world which were our group so describe little more in depth tomorrow in this room at the same time talk about some of our history for example in working with Oprah and we worked in the 70s all growth when it was a completely socially relevant topic the Dean authority had told our leader just that it was a few responsible to spend public dollars tax powers to Old Forest because they were going to be gone as can be converted the plantations will be persistent and after another decade we studied this decade of the 70s road summary paper 81 Bayern medalist took off from that and over the next decade they were able to get an injunction a tall timber harvest in the range of the Spotted Owl running from San Francisco Canadian border has all to rehearse on federal lands and that experience we know two critical things one is that we took a decade of capacity building in our science community and some of it was published papers in science journals and building

a body of work and new knowledge but a lot of it had to do with developing a group and interdisciplinary group that could communicate together with one another forest ecologist stream accomplice entomologist geologist such as myself develop our stories that develop storytellers and I was critical and how that word over a 20-year period three big cracks in the policy and how forest perception of the perception of force especially pulled for us change it makes me wonder if the collaborations with the arts and humanities that is placed based and takes the long view is getting underway now is a form of capacity building for social impacts one or two decades down the road that we can’t really envision so the online of I talk about long-term ecological reflections program basis for us or we spit out to monsey melons and now they’re about 20 sites that are doing this this type of work nationally many of them are long-term ecological reserve science rooted in the sciences but others some of them are so this is these are some notes about the context you know from this history of work see the value of taking the long view and being placed based we’re not totally anchored with blinders I’ll me to that place we collaborate across many sites and all of us have studies elsewhere we also think that the topics that may be irrelevant in what time period when social or environmental issue context maybe he’ll think irrelevant we have the sense of capacity building received that the infrastructure for science and experiments yield facilities information management data management all of the sites infrastructure has been very useful as we’ve been big page creative writers and artists you tell the writers have about 40 in theatres that they’re part of a 200 year study just like the 200-year loggy composition study which is one of the sites we asked them to go to to reflect on the ecosystem and our place and we asked them to provide us with their date grant holes filled those published it works and places that are most suitable for them and give us reprints so we can put them in our bibliographic database so there they are there with the climate data and stream flow data the nest days are long in there with another feeling we have in the sciences Bayern metal signs is for example a few years back there’s a description of the Grand Challenges for our field they were science challenges but terms of science impact in society those grand challenges will really have a lot to do with human values we need that connection in order to see our science investments we’ve also been very attentive to the social networks networks sites and using sort of network theory social network theory as we’ve tried to propagate these ideas Oh across many other sites we have no overarching superstructure of administration this is very much a grassroots ever so we’re working with an existing networks such as a long-term ecological research network between suffice 25 sites terminal forests for serves a site organizational biological field stations for the 200 and their early adopters and ID communities associated with places on the humanity side for the ingress forest we capitalized on the community social

network of nature writers of the u.s the riot society has developed over the last competitors so the inner scores program slightly tongue-in-cheek drifting off long-term ecological research to a long-term ecological collections and we do this through collaboration commuters for science community and humanities people principe word which is privately about but now resides in the school for religion philosophy the key feature here is that we have people and programs and people with standing in both of their worlds on both the humanities the science of who forsake some of their own work for the purpose of facilitating the work of others so we do this collaborative thing and the Forest Service Corps service research has been a major supplier of plugs on the science side which then we channel over to humanists and we have had some periods of NSF buddy so the key ingredients of the program is Wien visited help taking off from how we try to engage scientists in the long-term ecological research program so people take the long view be place-based help you place a voice of erratically interdisciplinary now we can’t keep up with the lead she is the preeminent radical and it’s an interdisciplinary we grow and then we want to collect archive and actively share the works there are lots of programs out there through writer residency’s and artists presidencies and beautiful places the National Park Service has our distant residence well we haven’t seen that they’ve typed all of these ingredients together which are really following and then stand back and see what’s happening distances and what we’ve come to do and we can’t do all we want to do well we have two writers of residence programs 1 by invitation roughly every year we have a field suppose in about 20 people describe of saying hello to their we have public events we have every other year a writer or environmental philosopher gathering them about 30 people from the West and these are communities of people that are highly dispersed and they work and render solitary environments we come together for a weekend in the forest and share views and tackle some interesting issues and reminded that they’re part of a community who wants to save the world to help them lift their spirits and then we have variety of educational spin-offs and we’re trying to get humanities and the science and natural history messages delivered in concert to middle schoolers and their programs at the undergrad and grad level so for example we have visiting scholars program we at our site are very active in this time to get this network sites going and we have funding to begin an overview or synthesis project with the post d student working with our new principal investigator for our Andrews long-term ecological research project this principal investigator is an environmental philosopher practically all the pies at the Delta Y our sites have been so now provide a few samples of the works that appeared else in hawthorne damning a wonderful poet very thoughtful person let the Fortran program University of Arizona years she wrote this essay two-page essay song of a thrush flutters through the quiet the audit or equivalent the seeing in orchid

beauteous clinic what a record field scientists and poets time is coming so we’re trying to follow through on that charge another visiting writer is one of those amazing people who have a foot in both worlds wonderful writer for both gathering loss on the borough’s wonderful writer but a botany professor of biologists from Syracuse to wrote an essay interview with that flower shape a small snippet it’s a hopeful thing when scientists look to the land for knowledge where they tried to translate into mathematics the stories that water but it is not only scientists and the data may change our minds we need so there were things I expected to hear from these visiting writers all wonder we asked them to go into the 500 year old for us we asked them to go to the with all and blunders there’s an example Laurel Scott Russell Sanders from Indiana and published along as yes a mind in the forest and Orion magazine I touched treaties as others might stroke vectors of automobiles or finger silk fabrics or as well I am drawn to all ages and kinds from maple sprouts barely older leaves off the ground the towering sequoia with their crowns I’m especially drawn to the and here’s Allison again she had gone out with an autobio artists and they were following the owl protocol trying to find nests sighs we’re tracking the reproductive success of northern spotted owls there’s a big demographic study across much of the Spotted Owl region and the Andrews forest as a center and the protocol for calling it out either by booting it or with a tape recorder and what’s the aisle appeared on the scene a mousy presenting it some ice and giving it one hour to take the mouse to the nest site so if you all picked up a mouse and took off then the l biologist had to run across the hill slopes through the state with your meter and half diameter logs laying on them to find it mr. Steve the all biologists located in a loan that Ares they went out the most did the l presented advise y’all perched there and they had an hour long stare death in and here she writes we exchanged the long slow interspecies stare thread only the confusing mystery of the other perhaps she thinks girls we didn’t look we do not look like girls but we do briefly catching and offering pray in still it’s been an interesting for me to read that first sentence about this interspecies there and you can recollect Aldo Leopold and seeing the fierce green fire about this work the Northwest meeting of the Northwest vertebrate biologists how many of you found your career or sustained in your career by that I was sensitive about bringing sensitive writers and artists of forest having a bunch of exercise seeing our research crash so the information instrumentation

is active and we’ve got mixed responses now thank you grant very long haul debris and it’s very interesting for me to see how she faces so these words our fruit greater residents produced the first essay the long haul context but you receive our first totally writers seriously when they get out there in the context or experimental Watership University for two years ago this summer we had a centennial reading vegetation Kyle who was trained as a lepidopterist and helped establish the third seed society for conservation of invertebrates he he’s passionate wild and crazy but he makes his way in the world right he wrote this essay which was one of his many to peer much further down the line requires not only empathy for those who follow but also faith in the future even if you won’t be there to see you may be looking to the future as a way of coping there will still be something to see maybe it’s the only way to make sure so this is really about the hope that is manifested establishing studies they’re going to vastly here’s this work I help you is log decomposition installation more than 500 blog six meters long 50 centimeters diameter four species representing a rape range of Cambridge PVC pipes on some of them which are respiration chambers to measure the exhalations of the log dizzy I now see this is as a form of installation art in the sense that it triggers all kinds of conversations never would happen I’ve been there hundreds of times mark many others myself lecture about what this works all about about carbon dynamics both importance of dead wood and ecosystems on land and in streams the implications have worked in those for us for the global carbon budget importance how much storage occurs in their wood and then here comes a poet term a blue-collar poet that a lot of his life stage IV carpenter but he broke his rib loudly became a trip called the respiration chambers and wrote an interesting tool it’s under web page before slowing a video and reading it in the site and in the ball is the line in your breath our break we’re inhaling the excavations were changing breaths and so here’s the case where Howie incredibly familiar sight and gives us new insights Alison Debbie I saw her when she came out of the old growth site for the long decomposition experiment so I was going so you know I feel a lot better I’ve been struggling with the decline of my

90 year old level and this site represents such an honoring of death and cycling and you guys talk about how the decomposing logs that were living cells in them then do the lie logs in the series and so she actually have received brief counsel for us in the experiment so as I mentioned another thing we do or these conversations for us colon peeled symposia where we bring together generally around 20 people from disciplines relevant to the topics and we have group discussions personal individual writing span their minds to your ideas on these topics and then commonly will go back to town what will plant a performance begin by opening up and then towards the for us narrow down and plan a performance and go back to the mouse or maybe outside amazing presentation to an invited group and open group but we’ve been thinking about trying to bring in people community members educators landowners watershed Council coordinator people who have an opportunity to critique and add to the ideas but also to carry fresh ideas up into the community and into the relevant practice so these are some of the topics that we have our first event with new metaphors and restoration course the theme the direction that he took with in our discussions was what we really are working on and you can work on is three story asian to bring find new stores that are suitable for the relationship that we want to have the place we want to have in the landscape in the water shifts bless them in the forest the native people had stories which were critical to supply their stories weren’t good we struck those all of those stories and then we impose new ones like the heroic stories and cutting down the big old trees photos and then we so now we need so then here’s some of the other topics including destruction so then after we found some success and fun in doing this we wanted to curious whether places and emails people in some other places so about seeing him so 919 by Katie kaboom with only a few months of warning the volcano blew up and the transformed the landscape which viewed from the mountaintop in the upper right looking north across the forested landscape across Spirit Lake to welker near in the distance and in the course of about 10 minutes beginning you need 32 I’m 18 the volcano are here with boys and helicopter gets a new because the mountaintop was dying landslide deposit or scattered across the fence your spirit lake there’s a huge log back and 125 square miles this is a eastward looking view of the gaping crater big landslide closet but quickly sightings of resurgence so broadleaf maple sprouting the midst of did build Congress killdeer building a nest particles landslide deposit you can geologically the dome was growing in the greater and been fascinating for me both let’s say Helens in plus five years of word from South America to welcome us to

see that there is a succession of social responses to the severe disturbance imposed by these kinds of abrupt and catastrophic seemingly uncontrollable types of disturbances so and so my workers changes in the landscape erosion and how vegetation comes back in some cases facilitated by Road so we’ve had a series of activities of cleansing Hellas and the good fortune to be a field assistant to poetry field work in the year 2000 20 a good influence like thinking engagement through the world I was an undergraduate and that inspired me you know what could happen we really came to these magical places and sciences together and so 25th anniversary of the eruption in at the 30th anniversary we gathered people on the land and mixture of scientists and poets and gathered up the works and from the 25th anniversary of it we reduced the volume of writings poems and essays most American State University Press and to bring more explicitly humanities perspectives what is the meaning of this beyond a day site dome is growing and we had a blast available the visitors center also on the anniversary night’s main team in Portland had presentations by koakuma scientists and by security Franklin was Gary Snyder and thank 2010 we had we had it personal to win to the mix and between amongst the 300 first of all would win here is Negritude Franklin it a cumulative hundred years in years it was fascinating recently the last few months the online journal terrain.org has presented online some of the works by writers from from this pill together when a dozen writers from around the country joined with a over 100 scientists for a week one of those writers had been in the area affected World Trade Center disaster she’s an English teacher in New York City and she’s still under you know experience most traumatic stress syndrome she wanted to go and see what she could learn about this so here we are in the blast zone in 2005 in the evening and here’s mount st. helens giving us a little pop and this is part of this of the aspect wanting to be in the place and be quiet long enough that maybe we can hear the place and have been placed in conversation here’s a poem a rib eye Morgan Loic John Daniel you’re the perfect one the saint of symmetry you did it st. Helens as all of us looked up your storm and solitude you shrugged and side as if none of us were here no animals no trees no light

so other places are going with here’s a few images Stonewall from Harvard forest Massachusetts center gathering outside of Fairbanks and recently burned forest by our area we searched items for a forest upper right oregon coast the Sitka center for archaeology nested within cascaded experimental forests lower right your temper Blake’s long-term ecological service site though the university was lower left and Resource Center and these are but also big dry valleys it’s interesting looking at some of the names for this work as I said we don’t have an overarching organization with a overarching theme here affirmed mission statement so we’re just doing the first block of these are names that individual sites have given to their activities we call our long-term ecological reflections the Alaskan central Alaska people have program Lee calling them especially climate change the our temple likes people have a collection of artworks that they toured for three years around three states and the Upper Midwest like a dozen galleries and has to make another thousand people viewed those artworks on the theme planet change and there will be openings and little news stories and openings quite a bit of outrage drawing water is another name for another collection of work works the piece to the art of fire and words on fire the joint fire scientist programmable Forest Service BLM in the park service supports 14 million dollars of fire related science each year they’ve been doing so for about a dozen years they’re now trying to amplify the outreach and deliver this message to fire managers and also to the moment prior wildland fires a big issue we have an unsustainable policy you don’t know what to do with the Alaska people got funds or an art acquire exhibit and our group got one more words on fire set of programs analysis of the literature our framing of our relationship will fire her militaristic approach to it versus buyers friend were conflicted relationships our vocabularies are conflicted right now we have an exhibit at the National Science Foundation it opened at the end of februari to run through gym with a 50 or 60 art and writing pieces from 11 ltd our sites by 39 writers and artists and the title we’ve given to this a sense of place in changing places it’s interesting to think about the roles of people the sciences and the roles of people arts and communities in this topic scientists did the pleasure of work some pieces for a lifetime and those of us who do that and get a deep sense of the place we don’t really talk about it that much most of us some of us are very capable of it some wonderful instinct but the artists that’s the bread and butter of what they’re trying to do and they can do it in space changing places science we have a lot of currency there for the science land use legacies future scenarios will and change environmental

change these are all hot topics together so you know we have concern about some of these changes their changes we fight extremely undesirable many people of a sense of grief at loss of their favorite species from their home territory so this hasn’t happened yet the near future so together the artists I as the writers need to work and how we deal with challenging issues of change and help society and we music ecological reflections as in general parole parole bundle here are some examples for the Bonanza Creek guilty your group and last several performances with several hundred people attending there they are taking their applause with Tyrion sciences never talk and brown in the center and many artists and native kids so there was dance and saw from Native communities and it’s that people have looked at these activities and said yes I saw this made the critical way that we can reach some of these underrepresented groups which so quite so hard to reach for a long time overripe is a dance group one of the members is an associate professor and so microbiology and a dancer and so they’re crossdressers people disguise the scientists really to talk about this this kind of these ideas emerge and some of these science communities and people who are set of talents come forward and this is a very nice piece of fiber in the lower right part of this entire exhibit so here’s a bird landscape an active fire the low ground ecosystem smoldering fire I hear a few examples from North tempura flakes was Madison kipper left and image is called see no it’s all about carbon cycling an ecosystem as I carried by water this this is a large quilt with a science diagrams this is the duration of ice cover on Lake Mendota for 125 years aside of global warming at least our max of different research idols and invasive species so commend this richness in this quill this painting is really two paintings the frame runs on three sides on each side and this depicts the walleye a favorite game species being displaced by invasive Greenville smell so it’s interesting to look at how time is depicted in some of these different words Debbie kiss Barry’s artist who spending lenses of visiting Bullard fella river for us this is about in block chestnut chestnut was killed on chestnut blight early 20th century here’s the carcass of a chestnut falling into a hemlock that is now a decline because of the introduced and luckily adelgid which is waiting out so they’re these basis species course decline lots of her work is about lanius legacy session in stone doing the landscape she came out to the inverse forest and doing some work there laying his legacies in our forest park and they would kind of stuffs old logs and now we’ve recently been engaging with the Lea Wilson who was an abstract artist from Oregon who recently mentioned

married one of HJ can cruise the nation one of his grandsons and so these are bad this is a piece of artwork inspired by field work people variants go out with Leah and Debbie in representational artist so here’s some of the art exhibits the upper left is an ecological society of america where we showed some of the work that have been shown it in SF last year and then the other three are quite to the art display an acceptance up now the Clarice hard about each special specialist from our forests and Gail q who is a program officer so it’s just beginning but here’s some of the accomplishments you know the gallery exhibits performances and essays there’s some education programs that exist has been some interesting and burnet ease activism from gathering of environmental philosophers spark of the idea but importantly invisible this capacity of a growing community and growing a shared interest to do this kind of work and I think it’s going to work manifestation in our region but it’s important to have patience and experience to the whole growth / took 20 years to go from beginning of the science part beginning of the capacity building change so why do we do this you know it’s a little bit of outreach here science journalism National Science Foundation is looking for broader impacts we need to really push ourselves or as nalini has just documented in the journal article from a careful quantitative study of NSF summary statements from proposals our efforts are quite windy so let’s really stretch yourself get out do something new many ways of knowing there are places like Forrest peers manage ecosystems for the best hundreds of millions of dollars using the tools of science as the weather cools education is obvious different conversations and of course supervisor there’s an interesting paper in journal frontiers using militaristic metaphors are talking about invasive species they’re the enemy were the conquerors were going to squad it leads us to fail to take responsibility for our own rules usually as primary factors so there’s a matter of power conceptualising issues in cases the Forest Service people said it’s an agency for service person Washington goes once the labs try to write about this whole issue and of course there’s a kind of currency between scientists who many have wanted what to do this and the writers and artists and that is story and the work of scientists has been really impactful has been so because stories so it’s being done in many different ways with many sources of programs part of the

artists so our next activities are continue to kind of expand the network of sites doing this and for the network communication will stimulate other places to do it and people can go and look at how other sites are doing what kind of products out there using resources oh so site level network level and then synthesis activities and then perhaps further Oh reach for Tory art exhibits in a separate exhibit is behind security desk is that so I think long enough that you can have a good day in the field and go both ways by visitors I love take them down and there’s an agricultural landscape below the dr history occupational and people at 14,000 years as you do it there places that are real close and people just go out back and there isn’t much conversions on the site and of course we’ve got facilities here we’re very fortunate about 70 beds and so people do stay over it’s very busy in the summer and in the shoulder seasons spring and fall when we like most of the artists writers there’s plenty of room but there’s still a close eye on us and others so that these people interacting visitors will afar and some of the writers visitors oh there’s a field facility at University of Washington it’s a four-hour car and I think you get that far and really cuts down so you’ve got a lot of beautiful landscape here if you think about different parts of your program you might want to think about this distance issue there may be things you want to do that are you know you’ve got 10 minutes or one or two hours gives you a different kind of opportunity for hours it’s so important to go out there and be out the conversations out there because you have a different conversation in the forest or in the blast zone or in that envelope than you are in a lecture hall room in your preamble talk about change in public perception over 30 years take em in for what you told us it’s a positive change global warming and I’m struggling to find the same optimism with public perception yes that’s a that’s a gnarly one philosopher colleagues Kathleen dee Moore who we work together to start this and then Michael Nelson are just they are passionate about so they

produced this book oral ground ethical action for a planet in peril and they collected short essays and poems more than 70 of the world’s ideal leaders and the first Terry tempest for deals and they had a series of arguments these represented question is do we have a moral obligation to take action to protect the future six or eight essays Jets to the survival of mankind yes for the sacred yes with the sake of the earth yes the sake of all forms of life yes for the full expression they’ve taken this work the more than 50 cities and held what we call no sir readings but they were really sort of teachings or I think of them as community self-realization for people come together to hear about this people were concerned about the same thing now that’s a very grassroots technically but anyway there are examples that probably environmental philosopher community this is he communities environmental activism I so it’s a it’s an incredible task but you have to start somewhere so that’s trying to do an initial other campuses that have interesting programs like Colorado State University where that a couple a john calder also smelled Campbell have developed a program and gotten funding I think sort of for the broader impacts component of a very large climate change a program on that campus which i think is that the you know the nexus of the sciences at the advantages and done a variety of things across there so there’s some examples it’s totally gone just follow their type so I take it that at all it’s humid the forest ecologist need persuading but what is involved spokespersons to Washington create a conversation block certain along these lines and is it going to take a convulsive change or what was the nature of building the seedbed for big change and what we’re really talking about is such a complete transformation society you know dealing with foolproof Tinkertoys hairs it felt really small so I I just think that it comes down to bringing as many of our worldviews together in the space of our shared values and it’s not just the wildlands it’s steep and urban environments to and it’s interesting several DLT our sites are you know urban ecosystem Baltimore Phoenix and we need to deal with the whole Schmeer you know and deal with you know the student populations started going as early as we can and you know I didn’t hint some of the communications that very conversations today you know that the humanities are over there and

science is over here the people coming into the humanities or sort of science at verse and don’t have a history with science so how do we see really begin to bring those things together on a campus play this and we’re trying to do it in our ways that our campus with our resources so anyway I just think we have to keep keep pushing in every way we can using our own resources like Mary Ellen Tucker was just here for an event and we had heard come to andrews one day for as a visiting writer on ecology forum religion in ecology at Yale and we were in a beautiful piece of forest the stunning late fall afternoon I said talk about the terrible state the world as an essay knows it and she said it’s okay to be you have to balance sense despair which with the larval forgot it have enough despair that we work do our best work with urgency but not despair selection we do we have to remind ourselves